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March 10, 2017

its a losers game of zero sum gains

  1. Boards
  2. Nonstop Gaming - General
  3. Sonic player who play just to go fast are missing the point of the game
GuessWhoIAm 10 hours ago#1
and the fact Sega develops Sonic games to cater to those probably have something to do with why Sonic went so far downhill. 

The original games were designed in that the first play through of the game was more like a traditional platformer - slow and methodical, then the more you played, the more comfy you were with the stage and had enemy placements memorized so you could just breeze through like a badass through your own skill and his speed made it look so much more impressive. You had to earn your speed through practice

Now most everyone will start a Sonic game for the first time, run really fast and then rage because an enemy got in their way and took their rings (I was guilty of this too). I actually see this as the fault of both parties (players and modern sonic devs) - players because they don't know they need to memorize/master a level before they can really breeze through. But the devs too by catering to speed first by putting large empty areas with easily avoidable enemies and the obstacles so few and far between that it really can seem unfair

Just my two cents
Now Playing: I Am Setsuna, Tales of Symphonia
Last Game Beat: Mega Man 3
Custode_de_Pace 10 hours ago#2
This thread is dumb, the joy of the original Sonics were blasting through levels. Not stopping every 10 seconds to do awkward platforming.

Sonic is at its worst when its slow.
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
#3
(message deleted)
otisanime 10 hours ago#4
GuessWhoIAm posted...
and the fact Sega develops Sonic games to cater to those probably have something to do with why Sonic went so far downhill. 

The original games were designed in that the first play through of the game was more like a traditional platformer - slow and methodical, then the more you played, the more comfy you were with the stage and had enemy placements memorized so you could just breeze through like a badass through your own skill and his speed made it look so much more impressive. You had to earn your speed through practice

Now most everyone will start a Sonic game for the first time, run really fast and then rage because an enemy got in their way and took their rings (I was guilty of this too). I actually see this as the fault of both parties (players and modern sonic devs) - players because they don't know they need to memorize/master a level before they can really breeze through. But the devs too by catering to speed first by putting large empty areas with easily avoidable enemies and the obstacles so few and far between that it really can seem unfair

Just my two cents


This is flat out not true. Sonic was made to be a time attack style game. You are meant to be methodical, yes, but you're not meant to be slow about it. You CAN be slow about it, though, which is the appeal of the old games. They had tons of branching paths, and many opportunities for creative and interesting speedy platforming.

The problem with modern Sonic is that, pretty much, they don't really have much in the way of real platforming at all and no branching paths.

Sonic is supposed to be about speedy platforming.

Sonic isn't supposed to be about going in a straight line with slight twists every now and then really fast.
My Complete PC Game Library/Backlog: https://goo.gl/tbzQyZ
I need to finish things :(
(edited 10 hours ago)reportquote
wanderingshade 10 hours ago#5
Sonic 1,2, 3 & Knuckles weren't really about picking up the game for the first time ever and trying to run as fast as you could.
BANGSBASS 10 hours ago#6
I disagree. Classic sonic games made it really easy to fly through the first couple levels, and each level after wards became more and more platform focused. The same can be said of sonic adventure. This is the formula that works best imo, but deviation is not always a bad thing. Take sonic adventure 2, which let you breeze through pretty much all the sonic/shadow levels. Still lots of fun...
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puffpuffgame 10 hours ago#7
for someone apparently going for their phd, you sure seem to lack critical and analytical thinking skills lolol
metaIslug 10 hours ago#8
wanderingshade posted...
Sonic 1,2, 3 & Knuckles weren't really about picking up the game for the first time ever and trying to run as fast as you could.

Somewhat true, I feel like the 3D ones really leaned on that angle with introducing different ranks.
I think 3D Sonic > 2D Sonic, so
Illuminoius 10 hours ago#9
2 had a lot of speedy level design
it was considerably more open and less restrictive than the level design of fsonic 1
3 & knuckles was still pretty impressively speedy, with much cooler spectacles

sonic adventure has a mix of speed and platforming but the platforming is clunky due to the controls and general sloppiness of the game
even some of the fast segments suffer from instability (most notably the round tubes in lost world and how sonic refuses to go straight in windy valley's skies)

sonci adventure 2 is just s***ty copypaste level design with homing attack chains in place of platforming and the speed isn't even particularly thrilling, though there's more in-your-face action segments like the truck chase and the end of metal harbor

3 & knuckles did the speed-and-platforming mix the best and it had an absolute f***ton of secret shortcuts and small bonuses to find
rush adventure and the ds version of colors are the only pure "gotta go fast" games that felt like they had any real substance
(edited 10 hours ago)reportquote
iomega311 9 hours ago#10
Gotta go fast sections were a nice visual reward for beating traditional platforming challenges.
The undisputed and unchallenged Super Baseball 2020 champion. 
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old-new72 9 hours ago#11
@Custode_de_Pace

Shut the f*** up. You'd be missing a lot of stuff just because you got the speed runner mentality.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
TheMagica 8 hours ago#12
Illuminoius posted...
rush adventure and the ds version of colors are the only pure "gotta go fast" games that felt like they had any real substance


Though I feel that Rush Adventure is an improvement over the first in most ways, I still had a pretty good time with the first Rush game.

What are some of your problems with Rush? I'd love to hear them, if you don't mind my asking.
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Shut the f*** up. You'd be missing a lot of stuff just because you got the speed runner mentality.


It's Sonic.

You want us to stop every five seconds to check out the level and everything it uas to offer.

Your post is dumb as dirt. And wrong.

It's all about trying to get through it as fast as you can, regardless of whether or not it's your first time. Subsequent playthroughs are where you experiment with branching paths to try and make your time faster.
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
GuessWhoIAm 8 hours ago#14
Custode_de_Pace posted...
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Shut the f*** up. You'd be missing a lot of stuff just because you got the speed runner mentality.


It's Sonic.

You want us to stop every five seconds to check out the level and everything it uas to offer.

Your post is dumb as dirt. And wrong.

It's all about trying to get through it as fast as you can, regardless of whether or not it's your first time. Subsequent playthroughs are where you experiment with branching paths to try and make your time faster.


I'm not saying your first time you walk a few steps, stop completely, then jump on an enemy, walk slowly until next enemy, rince/repeat
Now Playing: I Am Setsuna, Tales of Symphonia
Last Game Beat: Mega Man 3
Illuminoius 8 hours ago#15
TheMagica posted...
What are some of your problems with Rush? I'd love to hear them, if you don't mind my asking.

i just don't like the level design
there's a lot of stop-and-go platforming over bottomless pits and cheap s*** like running right into a wall with a block right above you that's gonna immediately squish you
there's some boring enemy combat sections and autoscroller parts are too common
it just doesn't feel as good as rush adventure does, and i don't think the sailing stuff is even that bad (it's probably the best "side gameplay" the series has had since it's completely inoffensive instead of just being annoying)
old-new72 8 hours ago#16
@Custode_de_Pace

Your post is dumb as dirt. Sonic the Hedgehog is not always about going as fast as you can. Have you ever played Sonic the Hedgehog 3?
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
The whole game was marketed as going fast though. It's not people's fault for thinking the point of sonic is go fast. Heck, just stop controlling sonic for a second and watch him impatiently tap his foot. He wants to go fast . 

RLM made a video about thia
https://m.imgur.com/hnbzeoJ.png
If you see this then l posted from mobile.
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Your post is dumb as dirt. Sonic the Hedgehog is not always about going as fast as you can. Have you ever played Sonic the Hedgehog 3?


Yep, it is. Which is why when they force you to go slow, the game quality drops immensely, and why the slow levels are always remembered as the worst levels in the franchise.

If not at least trying to go fast, you're playing it wrong.
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
spiffyone 8 hours ago#19
Sonic is supposed to be about dealing with level design shifts/changes that impact player/character speed and dealing with those shifts quickly. It's not about "gotta go fast" in the sense that that's not what the level design is about (simply running around really really fast). The player goal as far as time is concerned is a different matter, obviously. But, really, even the latter isn't really "gotta go fast" but rather more "gotta react quickly" and to do that requires training memory and muscle memory. In that way, it condenses Sega's reflex reaction arcade game design pedigree into the form of a console platformer.
old-new72 8 hours ago#20
Am I talking to Joe Stanski from Speed Demos Archive?
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
spiffyone 8 hours ago#21
Custode_de_Pace posted...
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Your post is dumb as dirt. Sonic the Hedgehog is not always about going as fast as you can. Have you ever played Sonic the Hedgehog 3?


Yep, it is. Which is why when they force you to go slow, the game quality drops immensely, and why the slow levels are always remembered as the worst levels in the franchise..


That's never really been necessarily true in he series. There are quite a few slower paced levels in the 8-bit Sonic platformers that are quite fondly remembered. And no one ever really ranked something like Marble Hill in Genesis Sonic 1 as among the worst of the bunch in the series.

Unless they were of the sort of thinking that "run, run, run" is the name of the game.
old-new72 posted...
Am I talking to Joe Stanski from Speed Demos Archive?


Insults don't work if no one knows who you're talking about.

You should improve on your insulting skills, they are lackluster and bad.
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 8 hours ago#23
@Custode_de_Pace

Knowing games don't work if play in one style and ignore the other style.

You should improve on your insulting skills, they are lackluster and bad.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Knowing games don't work if play in one style and ignore the other style.

You should improve on your insulting skills, they are lackluster and bad.


Still gotta work on those insults, buddy. And the ability to type in English wouldn't hurt either. ;)
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 8 hours ago#25
@Custode_de_Pace

Just leave. You don't know how to play Sonic the Hedgehog. I doubt you even played one of the games.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Just leave. You don't know how to play Sonic the Hedgehog. I doubt you even played one of the games.


I'll bet your account on it, Buddy Boy
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 7 hours ago#27
@Custode_de_Pace

I'm not account betting on something meaningless, Deion.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
pigzig_n1 7 hours ago#28
s p e e d
BEASTモードPIGZIGPIGZIGPIGZIGPIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG
PIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Just leave. You don't know how to play Sonic the Hedgehog. I doubt you even played one of the games.


Fqa4Ekj

2XGwVJm

Not picture or listed (because they are digital elsewhere or I can't find the box):

Sonic Generations 360
Sonic Unleashed 360
Sonic Rivals
Sonic Rivals 2
Sonic Advance 1-3
Sonic Adventure Dreamcast
Sonic Mega Collection (GameCube)
Sonic Mega Collection (Xbox)
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 3D
Tail's Adventure
Sonic Spinball
Sonic Triple Trouble
Sonic Labyrinth
Dr. Robotniks Mean Bean Machine
Sonic 1 Game Gear
Sonic 2 Game Gear
Sonic Chaos
Sonic Blast
Sonic 3D Blast


Millions of individual versions of the other games

5NkWBzT

rqKvuIS

GJNzfxR

8YnptUs

UG0KzbK

SuNX8JV

oHbRoOG

9cejehe

With such achievements as beating the games in under 40/30 minutes, beating the games without dying and continuing, etc.
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
(edited 6 hours ago)reportquote
old-new72 6 hours ago#30
Beating a game that quickly is not always fun.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
old-new72 posted...
Beating a game that quickly is not always fun.


Trying to change the subject, LMAO

Please close your account, you lost
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 6 hours ago#32
@Custode_de_Pace

Not changing anything, kid. You clearly are too dense to explore outside of the speed runner's aspect.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Not changing anything, kid. You clearly are too dense to explore outside of the speed runner's aspect.


Still trying to change the subject.

Please close account.
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 6 hours ago#34
@Custode_de_Pace

Still trying to think his opinion is fact.

Please close account.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Still trying to think his opinion is fact.

Please close account.


You realize what my post was about don't you? LMAO
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 6 hours ago#36
@Custode_de_Pace

You realize what my posts was about don't you? LMAO
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

You realize what my posts was about don't you? LMAO


"You clearly have never played a Sonic game before"

*Gets ass blasted by FAX*

Close account pls
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 6 hours ago#38
@Custode_de_Pace

"Which is why when they force you to go slow, the game quality drops immensely, and why the slow levels are always remembered as the worst levels in the franchise.."

*Gets ass blasted by FAX*

Close account pls
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

"Which is why when they force you to go slow, the game quality drops immensely, and why the slow levels are always remembered as the worst levels in the franchise.."

*Gets ass blasted by FAX*

Close account pls


Hahahahahahahaha, trying to change the subject again. Goddamn, got two of these going on at once, and I can't stop laughing at either of them.
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 6 hours ago#40
@Custode_de_Pace

Hahahahahahaha, trying to ignore what you said again. Goddamn, got two of these going on at once, and I can't stop laughing at either of them.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Hahahahahahaha, trying to ignore what you said again. Goddamn, got two of these going on at once, and I can't stop laughing at either of them.


Man, your insults and comebacks. I love good insults and comebacks like any good person would, but yours are just subpar and mostly consist of repeating what the last thing the person said was. Those are gutter tier insults and comebacks and it is embarrassing and I hope you work on it and improve upon it in the future.
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 5 hours ago#42
@Custode_de_Pace

Man, your insults and comebacks. I love good insults and comebacks like any good person would, but yours are just subpar and mostly consist of ignoring facts that others have said. Those are gutter tier insults and comebacks and it is embarrassing and I hope you work on it and improve upon it in the future.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
GuessWhoIAm 5 hours ago#43
0hQyd5Lh
Now Playing: I Am Setsuna, Tales of Symphonia
Last Game Beat: Mega Man 3
old-new72 posted...
@Custode_de_Pace

Man, your insults and comebacks. I love good insults and comebacks like any good person would, but yours are just subpar and mostly consist of ignoring facts that others have said. Those are gutter tier insults and comebacks and it is embarrassing and I hope you work on it and improve upon it in the future.


Tyreke.jpeg

Cmon, son
"Finding an underage girl physically attractive doesn't mean you want to do anything with them" - Lightningale
old-new72 5 hours ago#45
I'm not gonna stoop that low to putting up pictures of insults.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
pigzig_n1 5 hours ago#46
dont blink
dont think
just go go go gog gtggggotgogog 
gotta go fast gotta go fastgotta go faster faster fast faster fafafsst
BEASTモードPIGZIGPIGZIGPIGZIGPIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG
PIGZIG PIGZIG PIGZIG
old-new72 5 hours ago#47
^Weirdo with a random post again.
"I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
SSJ3Goku222 5 hours ago#48
old-new72 posted...
I'm not gonna stoop that low to putting up pictures of insults.



I'm sorry but you got rekt after calling him out for not playing a sonic game and then he hits you with visual evidence and you still trying to keep it going. 

You might as well just accept the L and move on
X-Box Live GT: YoungReezy1337
Stop complaining or complain funnier
http://i.imgur.com/U1Nhrnq.png
Custode the s***poster sure is getting in lots of arguments with other s***posters today.
  1. Boards
  2. Nonstop Gaming - General
  3. Sonic player who play just to go fast are missing the point of the game
    1. Boards
    2. Nonstop Gaming - General
    3. Sonic player who play just to go fast are missing the point of the game
    -ZIO- 5 hours ago#51
    If you're not going fast, is it worth playing?
    - Time waits for no one - 
    Bellum omnium contra omnes
    spiffyone 5 hours ago#52
    Bako Ikporamee posted...


    Without seeing the vid yet (net is spotty right now), the title of that vid doesn't go with that game.

    Now SMW or SCIV, otoh....
    Illuminoius 4 hours ago#53
    they conveniently refrained from criticizing the best game in the series
    old-new72 4 hours ago#54
    @SunburnCostanza

    Boo hoo, stalker.
    "I've had every system ever , period." -Maximothelad
    Pretty bold claim that people should never say.
    GuessWhoIAm 4 hours ago#55
    why isn't this a hot topic yet lol
    Now Playing: I Am Setsuna, Tales of Symphonia
    Last Game Beat: Mega Man 3
    I like Sonic 2 and 3 were if you collect all the chaos emerald you get reward such as Super transformation.

    It is not easy to control the speed of Super Sonic but fan when used to it.

    Sonic 3 and knuckles hyper transformation along with Super Tails better.
    http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/ dragon ball forum
    http://midnighttavern.forumotion.com/ Must be over 18 years old to join.
    Sega marketing ruined the series.
    Sonic is always about going fast. What the hell is the point of exploring? The f*** you gonna find? Rings? Extra lives? The games pretty damn easy and all the rings you need are basically on the main path. No, you find faster routes...That's why you explore. So you go fast next time. The games entirely marketed on going fast. It's sonic's entire thing. 

    So basically, TC is entirely right about this in the body of this topic, speed is the reward in sonic and not about empty areas, but I'd say the title is off base - it was always about going fast. They just made the games a lot easier so you don't have to practice. I don't think they listened to people who just wanted to go fast, they listened to people who didn't want to practice levels to go fast. 

    I think some of the later sonic games do this fine anyway, though, and are still fun, so it's whatever to me.
    'Come fight beside me,' I said to myself, and although it doesn't make sense, I held my own hand as a small sign of trust, and together I made my defense.
    BANGSBASS 1 hour ago#59
    Custode_de_Pace posted...
    old-new72 posted...
    @Custode_de_Pace

    Just leave. You don't know how to play Sonic the Hedgehog. I doubt you even played one of the games.


    Fqa4Ekj

    2XGwVJm

    Not picture or listed (because they are digital elsewhere or I can't find the box):

    Sonic Generations 360
    Sonic Unleashed 360
    Sonic Rivals
    Sonic Rivals 2
    Sonic Advance 1-3
    Sonic Adventure Dreamcast
    Sonic Mega Collection (GameCube)
    Sonic Mega Collection (Xbox)
    Sonic the Hedgehog 2 3D
    Tail's Adventure
    Sonic Spinball
    Sonic Triple Trouble
    Sonic Labyrinth
    Dr. Robotniks Mean Bean Machine
    Sonic 1 Game Gear
    Sonic 2 Game Gear
    Sonic Chaos
    Sonic Blast
    Sonic 3D Blast


    Millions of individual versions of the other games

    5NkWBzT

    rqKvuIS

    GJNzfxR

    8YnptUs

    UG0KzbK

    SuNX8JV

    oHbRoOG

    9cejehe

    With such achievements as beating the games in under 40/30 minutes, beating the games without dying and continuing, etc.

    /topic... f***ing pwned all you groveling scum...
    My Shenmue Designs! http://www.redbubble.com/people/hoogafanter/shop
    STEAM: (BANGS) BASS wubwub
    metaIslug 1 hour ago#60
    Enix Belmont posted...
    they listened to people who didn't want to practice levels to go fast.

    more or less. the boost games let you go fast without knowing what you're doing. 
    but once you do know what you're doing, you can go even faster.


    although even declared slowest game sonic lost world you can speed run to much style


    so whatever. the tools are always there to go fast
    1. Boards
    2. Nonstop Gaming - General
    3. Sonic player who play just to go fast are missing the point of the game

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