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April 4, 2017

Ebay buyer stealing $1100 gamepc without paying b/c USPS delivered 20days late

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  3. Ebay buyer stealing $1100 gamepc without paying b/c USPS delivered 20days late
dn6007 1 day ago#1
When I paid (insured) USPS 3-day priority shipping USPS made error shipping by sea not air. After 10 days, buyer opened case with Ebay and got refund. Ebay closed the case and don't want to help me but gave me buyer's phone/contact info and suggested to ask buyer to return item. At first, buyer wrote email saying he can ship item back. Then hours later, he said he won't: "Disregard the two solutions I presented you in my last message. I just spoke with ebay and was told that I am not required to: comply with your request to return or to respond to your messages."

Ebay also charged me $110 selling fee on this item when I received $0 for this item (lost $1100).
Please help, as I have young kids to support. Appreciate any advice. Thanks so much.
(edited 1 day ago)quote
Do you and the buyer live in the same country? If you both happen to live in the same state, don't know why it took 20 days to ship, you can contact the state police and provide evidence.

You need to open a new case with Ebay claiming theft. And yes, the buyer must comply with request to return the item if the buyer refuses to pay. Being late is no excuse for refusal to pay.

I know there are people who give false information about your options and responsibilities. Don't trust anyone except Ebay's moderators and lawyers about the rules.

If Ebay does not offer any support, your only option is a lawyer, but if you are both in the same country, you might be able to contact state police for suggestions.

A list of evidence you will need:

1) The trade agreement (the Ebay sale)
2) Proof that the buyer received the item (USPS should be able to supply that data or else)
3) Proof that the buyer did not pay.
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(edited 1 day ago)quote
cory1225 1 day ago#3
since you have his info you can go to the police, thats enough for a felony
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Death_Born 1 day ago#4
Open a new case with Ebay, as long as you have evidence he signed for it it should be no sweat to get your money.
loader963 1 day ago#5
eBay rarely reopens a closed case. Should have used package intercept bro once he opened a case. Go file a report at local police office, then call his local p.d. and report him and give the the report number your pd gave you. Google "postal inspector" and file a mail fraud claim against the address. 

Make copies of all emails, usps and police reports, shipping receipts, and customer emails. You can take them to small claims court, but it would be in buyers local jurisdiction. Idk how far away this is from you though.

Edit: I see usps sea and air so I guess this isn't all in the us. Never mind this wall of text. Sorry for your loss bro.
I can be patient, but I'm not waiting!
(edited 1 day ago)quote
dn6007 posted...
When I paid (insured) USPS 3-day priority shipping USPS made error shipping by sea not air. After 10 days, buyer opened case with Ebay and got refund. Ebay closed the case and don't want to help me but gave me buyer's phone/contact info and suggested to ask buyer to return item. At first, buyer wrote email saying he can ship item back. Then hours later, he said he won't: "Disregard the two solutions I presented you in my last message. I just spoke with ebay and was told that I am not required to: comply with your request to return or to respond to your messages."

Ebay also charged me $110 selling fee on this item when I received $0 for this item (lost $1100).
Please help, as I have young kids to support. Appreciate any advice. Thanks so much.


Well first off, after the 10 days when they opened a case, but before the 20 days it took to get there, did you try to intercept the package and have it sent back to you? I'm not sure how that would work with international shipments. Edit: It seems it doesn't work for international. Did you try calling the postal service in the country the package was sent to? What did they say? 

https://www.usps.com/manage/package-intercept.htm 

Second, it seems that (going by what you said) ebay's policy doesn't require them to return it. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but if it is then you agreed to it by selling on there. Getting a lawyer won't do anything if you agreed to those terms. Have you read through ebay's policy to see if it says they actually have to return it?
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(edited 1 day ago)quote
Sounds like you leaned a valuable lesson about selling online.
Sorry it cost you so much though :-\
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gilv3r 1 day ago#8
Yeah all you can do is go to the police. Hopefully you documented everything in the PC well or else the "buyer" will put crappy parts in it. Best of luck and don't use eBay again.
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DemigirlMeg 1 day ago#9
There is NOTHING you can do TC. ebay caters to buyers, that's why it's super easy to scam people there nowadays. Take the loss and move on.
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I don't suppose you can get any compensation from the shipping company because they are kinda at fault here?
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Edavy89 1 day ago#11
Why the hell would you ship something off before it was paid for? That was f***ing stupid.
loader963 1 day ago#12
DemigirlMeg posted...
There is NOTHING you can do TC. ebay caters to buyers, that's why it's super easy to scam people there nowadays. Take the loss and move on.


Much truth here in this post. And the police usually aren't much help, they will say this is a civil problem not a criminal and it will drive you nuts. I've finally got bit on the eBay but it's part of the game. Not as much as TC though.
I can be patient, but I'm not waiting!
loader963 1 day ago#13
Edavy89 posted...
Why the hell would you ship something off before it was paid for? That was f***ing stupid.


They probably paid but then got eBay/PayPal to refund or else they filed a chargeback.
I can be patient, but I'm not waiting!
Hagan 1 day ago#14
bro, you are crap outta luck. You ain't getting the money or the PC back. Sorry for your loss.

EDIT: Also, to any one posting about going to the police. They are not going to do anything. They will tell you to pursue litigation, and the amount of time and money you will spend to litigate this matter will far outweigh the cost of the PC.
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(edited 1 day ago)quote
DotA_GC 1 day ago#15
Coming from a buyer/seller on ebay. 

It's ruthless out there man. It's honestly like having a job in a claims or disputes department in some kind of operations or insurance position. You gotta have your s*** together and be prepared to fight battles with people trying to scam you all the time. 

And I would not recommend selling something with that high of value, ever. I'd rather dismantle it and sell the pieces separately. 

And yea, like others have said. If you can't get at least some kind of manager/mod/paralegal/lawyer on the phone at ebay then go to the police for sure.
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Edavy89 1 day ago#16
I really don't know why anyone is taking this seriously. Any of you actually think someone who is concerned about being able to care for their children financially, spent enough on a computer for it to be able to sell for $1100 used? Really?
Rud3Bwoy 1 day ago#17
Lmao I love this buyer
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oblique365 1 day ago#18
Edavy89 posted...
I really don't know why anyone is taking this seriously. Any of you actually think someone who is concerned about being able to care for their children financially, spent enough on a computer for it to be able to sell for $1100 used? Really?


Good point. Unless you are in a 1 bedroom apartment being evicted, dont own a vehichle you could sell, and you dont have to resort to snap benefits for food, then im sure you and the kids will be just fine.

Going on topic, id be scared to sell an 1100 dollar item over ebay myself. The only option now would to be to show up at his house ready to do what it takes. Other than that you lost out. Its not a criminal matter. File a lawsuit.
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dn6007 1 day ago#19
Death_Born posted...
Open a new case with Ebay, as long as you have evidence he signed for it it should be no sweat to get your money.


I contacted and talked to Ebay several times but they have not been able to help. I'm in Hawaii so by sea to TN took that long.
Thanks so much for all the replies. Very appreciated.
(edited 1 day ago)quote
Touya999 1 day ago#20
Ironically this board might be better than advice board.
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dn6007 1 day ago#21
Edavy89 posted...
Why the hell would you ship something off before it was paid for? That was f***ing stupid.

As mentioned, I shipped after buyer paid. USPS made a mistake shipped by sea instead of air from Hawaii to TN, USA. Buyer got refunded because shipment was late.

Thanks.
Ciera 1 day ago#22
the only thing you can do is file a police report with his local police dept and contact usps to report mail fraud. ebay won't help you, as they & paypal have the table tilted against the seller (the best you can do really is contest the charges). what the buyer did is mail fraud so you should seriously pursue that.
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dn6007 1 day ago#23
Edavy89 posted...
I really don't know why anyone is taking this seriously. Any of you actually think someone who is concerned about being able to care for their children financially, spent enough on a computer for it to be able to sell for $1100 used? Really?

It's a 2017 gaming laptop 13" GTX 1060. It means my young kids will have less spending money (not necessary starving) for birthdays, better foods, fun stuff to look forward to.

Thanks,
Huh. There has to be something you can do. I guess you can leave negative feedback on the buyer, lol. I don't know about anything else. Luckily, you do have the guy's real name and address. I guess you could sue him in small claims court. I have no idea how that would work though. Hopefully he'd have to come to Hawaii. If you have to fly to TN then it wouldn't be worth it. 

My advice is to get one of the would-be-lawyers here to write a letter threatening litigation if your property isn't returned. Then offer to send him a shipping label so all he has to do is put the label on and take it back to the post office. Maybe he'll return it to avoid the hassle. You'll eat the shipping cost but atleast you got the computer back.
ClunkerSlim posted...
Huh. There has to be something you can do. I guess you can leave negative feedback on the buyer, lol. I don't know about anything else. Luckily, you do have the guy's real name and address. I guess you could sue him in small claims court. I have no idea how that would work though. Hopefully he'd have to come to Hawaii. If you have to fly to TN then it wouldn't be worth it. 

My advice is to get one of the would-be-lawyers here to write a letter threatening litigation if your property isn't returned. Then offer to send him a shipping label so all he has to do is put the label on and take it back to the post office. Maybe he'll return it to avoid the hassle. You'll eat the shipping cost but atleast you got the computer back.


This sounds the most plausible. Especially for the fact that you have the buyer's physical address I'm assuming. It's not like it's an anonymous transaction. Pull all of your evidence together and send a very imposing message.
Haters = Motivators
If you lawyer up, go for the deep pockets. USPS is your target. While the buyer is probably guilty, so is USPS
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loader963 1 day ago#27
Unsugarized_Foo posted...
If you lawyer up, go for the deep pockets. USPS is your target. While the buyer is probably guilty, so is USPS


USPS delivered. Even though it's late insurance won't cover due to delivery. Besides, they make it almost impossible to take them to litigation. 

@ClunkerSlim it has to be buyers jurisdiction. 

Bro I know it sucks and is unfair, it's the way of the world. Besides this guy sounds like the type that even if it had been delivered on time. he likely would have filed a SNAD claim and that is almost impossible to beat. Just remember online sales can be brutal.
I can be patient, but I'm not waiting!
(edited 1 day ago)quote
AlleRacing 1 day ago#28
If you had it insured through USPS, sounds like they're the ones at fault here.
loader963 posted...
@ClunkerSlim it has to be buyers jurisdiction. 

That sucks. Are you sure? But wait... is he still legally considered a buyer under US law? (Not eBay law.) I mean, the guy never paid. So wouldn't that be straight up theft, not a buying dispute? If it's theft, is it still the other guy's jurisdiction? 

But still, the litigation is more of a bluff. Maybe the buyer won't realize that TC has to come to TN? Just make the letter sound really official and highlight the fact that you'll pay for the return.
drewh 1 day ago#30
AlleRacing posted...
If you had it insured through USPS, sounds like they're the ones at fault here.

No they're not. USPS doesn't care or need to abide by some arbitrary set of rules imposed by eBay on the seller or buyer.
(edited 1 day ago)quote
NicoGrimm 1 day ago#31
I'm just shocked someone would buy a $1k computer. Over Ebay.
How dare the Gods work against me! I don't remember giving them permission.
drewh posted...
AlleRacing posted...
If you had it insured through USPS, sounds like they're the ones at fault here.

No they're not. USPS doesn't care or need to abide by some arbitrary set of rules imposed by eBay on the seller or buyer.

Well, USPS did screw up. That's not in question. But good luck getting money from the US postal service. I think we all agree that would be a nightmare to even try to make that happen. But in a perfect world, the USPS should cough up some money.
(edited 1 day ago)quote
I was selling a number of 600 USD SAS drives a while ago.
Some guy bought 10 of them, claimed they didn't work, and then returned them.

When I sent them in they were all working.
When I got them back they looked like they were in horrible shape and were trashed and did not work.

He literally took my new drives, swapped them for his old ones, then claimed they didn't work and opened a case with eBay to return them while I had to refund him everything.

Right after that I stopped using paypal and ebay.

My only regret is that I ever bothered using eBay in the first place.
loader963 1 day ago#34
ClunkerSlim posted...
loader963 posted...
@ClunkerSlim it has to be buyers jurisdiction. 

That sucks. Are you sure? But wait... is he still legally considered a buyer under US law? (Not eBay law.) I mean, the guy never paid. So wouldn't that be straight up theft, not a buying dispute? If it's theft, is it still the other guy's jurisdiction? 


But still, the litigation is more of a bluff. Maybe the buyer won't realize that TC has to come to TN? Just make the letter sound really official and highlight the fact that you'll pay for the return.


I had too look into it recently. Had an ass file a chargeback on me after I shipped a GPU. Tried package intercept with the p.o but failed. The usps insurance was useless and PayPal would have actually covered me but I printed the shipping label off eBay and the address was identical minus a digit on zip code so it didn't match PayPal. My case is pending but I'm not optimistic. Just a lesson learned that while rare it does happen.
I can be patient, but I'm not waiting!
Rud3Bwoy 1 day ago#35
Lmao you're not getting nothing back and this is coming from someone who sides with the buyer ,the cops and police will tell you go to small claims court even after going to small claims court the buyer won't have to pay you back and you'll end up spending more there than the item itself
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DotA_GC 1 day ago#36
Yeah, hate to say it but buying and selling on ebay is pretty comparable to gambling. If you can't afford to lose what you are putting up then stay away. I wish as a seller that you could restrict your selling to only accounts with a high review rate or something. Wouldn't save everything but it would stop someone from making a new account everyday to scam repeatedly. 

There is one answer though. Vigilante justice. To make up for $1100 computer, round trip tickets and what i presume would be 2 lost days at work, you are going to have to make it worth your time. I'm sure there's a quality chop shop somewhere in TN you can take his car. 

Or go on facebook and try to bonk the guy's wife or something? IDK. Godspeed.
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makes me not want to sell on ebay ever again.. Only craigslist from now on.. In adds, I guess I should also put in a female would be preferred to pick up the item...
Combo Master
loader963 1 day ago#38
Combo Master posted...
makes me not want to sell on ebay ever again.. Only craigslist from now on.. In adds, I guess I should also put in a female would be preferred to pick up the item...


Lol I sell mostly used electronics. I live in a poorer region of the US and wouldn't get 1/3 of my money trying on CL and would take much longer to sell to boot. Fraud is actually rare on eBay but phones, electronics, jewelry, and collectibles are the highest risk items to sell. I just chalk it up and move on.
I can be patient, but I'm not waiting!
DotA_GC posted...
There is one answer though. Vigilante justice.

I'm not advocating this, but.... There is something that happens to Twitch streamers when their address is leaked. Knock Knock. ....Just kidding. Absolutely don't do that. 

Personally I would still try the litigation bluff. Send the guy some official looking paperwork and still offer to send him a USPS label. Maybe he'll fold and send it back.
I'd like to think you keep pushing hard enough you will at least be reimbursed the shipping costs from USPS and the selling fee from ebay.
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MakoReizei 1 day ago#41
this is why I don't use ebay for anything other than books
Litigation bluff probably is the best. And getting a lawyer to write a simple threatening letter only costs like $40 or so I'm told.

Alternatively, use his address and sign up for every sleazy or irritating thing you can find, every cosmo magazine, every brochure, every registration scam, everything. You even have his email so use that as much as possible to.

It won't get your money back, but you'll feel better.

Also, post the address and email and phone as often as you can so the spam bots do your bidding.
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(edited 1 day ago)quote
ein311 1 day ago#43
UnderwaterAir posted...
He literally took my new drives, swapped them for his old ones, then claimed they didn't work and opened a case with eBay to return them while I had to refund him everything.

I know it's hindsight and all that, but whenever I sell anything on eBay I take photos of the serial #, etc. just to avoid this.

I had someone try this on a graphics card I sold. Said it didn't work, did a chargeback, and sent me the item back. The serial # didn't match what I had posted on eBay and for once, eBay actually helped me out.
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In this entire 20 day ordeal, did you ever send the buyer a tracking number so he would know it was actually late?
It's a trick, get an axe.
dn6007 1 day ago#45
Shinigami2784 posted...
In this entire 20 day ordeal, did you ever send the buyer a tracking number so he would know it was actually late?

Yes, I provided tracking number, and explained why it was late. Thanks.
Orestes417 1 day ago#46
Sounds like a job for small claims court. Don't bluff, literally sue his ass.
There are some arenas so corrupt that the only clean acts possible are nihilistic.
(edited 1 day ago)quote
Monkeymage 1 day ago#47
Orestes417 posted...
Sounds like a job for small claims court. Don't bluff, literally sue his ass.


this
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I__I 1 day ago#48
If all else fails, send all the information to a local news station near this guy. Some news stations enjoy doing stories like this. Expose him, and maybe he'll learn his lesson.
DotA_GC 1 day ago#49
ein311 posted...
UnderwaterAir posted...
He literally took my new drives, swapped them for his old ones, then claimed they didn't work and opened a case with eBay to return them while I had to refund him everything.

I know it's hindsight and all that, but whenever I sell anything on eBay I take photos of the serial #, etc. just to avoid this.

I had someone try this on a graphics card I sold. Said it didn't work, did a chargeback, and sent me the item back. The serial # didn't match what I had posted on eBay and for once, eBay actually helped me out.


This is pretty good advice. 


It is kind of alarming ebay can just withdraw all selling profit out of your paypal account and give it back to the buyer without any kind of inquiry or investigation. Even if the investigation was just a customer service rep calling and asking what happened. IDK, seems wrong
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Honestly everyone here is right and all of the advice given is in hindsight. There is nothing you can do besides threaten small claims court; he could counter sue, too. USPS is not at fault and won't honor anything. Their objective is to get Box A to position A. That's /it/. They don't care if they use a cannon to do it.
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