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April 17, 2017

LGBT representation in Zelda BotW

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  2. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
  3. what do you think of LGBT representation in Zelda BotW?
konokonohamaru 4 hours ago#1
So far I can think of a few instances... Bolson, the cross-dressing Hylian, interspecies Finley & that dude...

what do you all think of it?

it seems handled better than in a lot of other games, in that a lot of it is just implied and left unsaid... 

*cough* *cough* Bioware
Darth_Kamcio 4 hours ago#2
konokonohamaru posted...
it seems handled better than in a lot of other games, in that a lot of it is just implied and left unsaid...


I think that about sums it up.
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DiogenesKC 4 hours ago#3
konokonohamaru posted...
it seems handled better than in a lot of other games, in that a lot of it is just implied and left unsaid...
why is that the better way to handle it
Welcome to the world of idiots.
Darth_Kamcio 4 hours ago#4
DiogenesKC posted...
konokonohamaru posted...
it seems handled better than in a lot of other games, in that a lot of it is just implied and left unsaid...
why is that the better way to handle it


Feels more tasteful than "HEY, WE PUT A GAY CHARACTER IN THE GAME SO YOU CAN'T SAY WE UNDERREPRESENT THE LGBT COMMUNITY!!!"-style checkbox-ticking.
You have absolutely no right to complain about a decision you decided to support with your money. Be smart and vote with your wallets!
konokonohamaru 4 hours ago#5
DiogenesKC posted...
konokonohamaru posted...
it seems handled better than in a lot of other games, in that a lot of it is just implied and left unsaid...
why is that the better way to handle it


to me it feels more natural and less forced

In real life people have various behaviors that might be correlated with their sexual preferences, but most don't go around announcing their preferences for no reason... so in real life, you just note their behavior, form an inference, but don't really make an issue of it and just interact with them normally
lvalice 4 hours ago#6
I'm pretty sure the Japanese don't care about our petty tumblr social justice grievances as much as we do.

All the game does is offer the players one female-esque disguise to slip in a town of Amazonians (which doesn't even fool half them anyway) , and people want to make it about lbgt and say the entire game is insulting to their cause they superficially want to pin blame on.

Rather than make it about lbgt, the more likely explanation is to the story, Link needs to get into a city of people from a race that has always been predominantly female and anti-male. I mean that was the plot in ocarina of time, all men sneaking in the area get locked up. In majora you wore a gerudo mask to pose as them. Of course Link wouldn't be allowed in some way. In every game, gerudo have a conflict with men and Link has had to sneak, infiltrate, and disguise to deal with them

By bringing LGBT into it, you're trying to complain about a problem that isn't there. Link using a disguise to sneak into an Amazonian society isn't about gay or transgendered people, it's about infiltration.

Why people need to look beyond that and see things that aren't there is beyond me
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(edited 3 hours ago)reportquote
Flash2Beasley 4 hours ago#7
I'll never understand the need for certain societies to celebrate a biological defect. You don't have to chastise it either, but to outwardly celebrate it and try to normalize it? Eh.
yab 4 hours ago#8
People complain when it's too subtle as well, even though it's better than the alternative like you said. I remember someone on Gamefaqs saying they wanted a gay character where it was both explicitly mentioned and accepted by other characters.
...
AshkeAngel 3 hours ago#9
*romances Fenris again*
Anclation 3 hours ago#10
Darth_Kamcio posted...
konokonohamaru posted...
it seems handled better than in a lot of other games, in that a lot of it is just implied and left unsaid...


I think that about sums it up.


Yeah, pretty much. The characters come across as unique characters, rather than political creations made to fill a "Muh Diversity" quota.
Yeah... Sorry.
ecylis 3 hours ago#11
i think it doesn't matter
Sentinel07 3 hours ago#12
Flash2Beasley posted...
I'll never understand the need for certain societies to celebrate a biological defect. You don't have to chastise it either, but to outwardly celebrate it and try to normalize it? Eh.

People will take any chance they get to force an agenda.
the_rowan 3 hours ago#13
This game does not actually have LGBT representation in any meaningful sense so IDK? I like Bolson, but throwing in a bunch of stereotypes as just kind of a joke doesn't really send any kind of message. Vilia doesn't represent trans people in any realistic capacity (what trans woman doesn't shave their face?) so I have no idea what he/she is supposed to be other than just a transvestite who flirts with Link either as a roleplaying thing or because he's gay/bi.

Bioware generally does pretty well-written gay and bi characters in their games (IDK about the newest Mass Effect, but historically they've been pretty good) so using them as a negative example just because their LGBT characters actually mention their sexuality (in a game where you can literally romance them) kinda suggests that you believe gay characters shouldn't actually exist.

The fact that you can't have a character mention his husband or boyfriend or whatever without it being "pandering", while literally several dozen characters explicitly mention their preference for the opposite sex, is really f***ed up, but of course people will just continue to whine that gay people are "over-represented" in games and any attempt to actually depict one is just "forcing" it in.

I had to deal with being unable to talk about my sexuality (such as relationships, preferences, etc.) in any capacity while at work every week of my life, for years going on, because I'm quite aware of the fact that my boss was somewhat racist, sexist, and homophobic based on how he talks about these groups on a regular basis. I had to just nod along while my co-workers talked about how hot various women were and mocked me for being too shy to get a girl while I was in my fifth year of my relationship with another man. Depending on where you live and work, you can seriously have to pick and choose who you talk to openly.

So forgive me if I get just a little bit pissy when people suggest that games shouldn't go so far as to actually explicitly acknowledge that some characters are gay.
"That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia
(edited 3 hours ago)reportquote
SythisTaru 3 hours ago#14
All Bolson does is make sexual noises. It's offensive.
23PQ 3 hours ago#15
I doubt legit LGBT representation is in the their mind when they created these characters. It really is more of an American (or western in general) issue.
(edited 3 hours ago)reportquote
Hudsucker20XX 3 hours ago#16
Flash2Beasley posted...
I'll never understand the need for certain societies to celebrate a biological defect. You don't have to chastise it either, but to outwardly celebrate it and try to normalize it? Eh.


"Defect"? Life isn't a doll factory. People are allowed to like themselves, celebrate themselves, and feel normal no matter how they come off the assembly line.
"Grumble grumble..." (level 7)
AshkeAngel 3 hours ago#17
the_rowan posted...
This game does not actually have LGBT representation in any meaningful sense so IDK? I like Bolson, but throwing in a bunch of stereotypes as just kind of a joke doesn't really send any kind of message. Vilia doesn't represent trans people in any realistic capacity (what trans woman doesn't shave their face?) so I have no idea what he/she is supposed to be other than just a transvestite who flirts with Link either as a roleplaying thing or because he's gay/bi.

Bioware generally does pretty well-written gay and bi characters in their games (IDK about the newest Mass Effect, but historically they've been pretty good) so using them as a negative example just because their LGBT characters actually mention their sexuality (in a game where you can literally romance them) kinda suggests that you believe gay characters shouldn't actually exist.

The fact that you can't have a character mention his husband or boyfriend or whatever without it being "pandering", while literally several dozen characters explicitly mention their preference for the opposite sex, is really f***ed up, but of course people will just continue to whine that gay people are "over-represented" in games and any attempt to actually depict one is just "forcing" it in.

I had to deal with being unable to talk about my sexuality (such as relationships, preferences, etc.) in any capacity while at work every week of my life, for years going on, because I'm quite aware of the fact that my boss was somewhat racist, sexist, and homophobic based on how he talks about these groups on a regular basis. I had to just nod along while my co-workers talked about how hot various women were and mocked me for being too shy to get a girl while I was in my fifth year of my relationship with another man. Depending on where you live and work, you can seriously have to pick and choose who you talk to openly.

So forgive me if I get just a little bit pissy when people suggest that games shouldn't go so far as to actually explicitly acknowledge that some characters are gay.


Some folks aren't happy unless the gay characters are well hidden or rendered solely as tokens just out of the way. 

Put in a gay character that's obvious, no matter how well written? "SJW PANDERING!"

Put in a gay character real subtle like? "Stop reading gay stuff into it! It's not canon!"

Creators are better off not bending over backwards trying to please those who would have them walk on eggshells and simply focus on writing characters as people(who are sometimes gay) instead.
SythisTaru 3 hours ago#18
AshkeAngel posted...
the_rowan posted...
This game does not actually have LGBT representation in any meaningful sense so IDK? I like Bolson, but throwing in a bunch of stereotypes as just kind of a joke doesn't really send any kind of message. Vilia doesn't represent trans people in any realistic capacity (what trans woman doesn't shave their face?) so I have no idea what he/she is supposed to be other than just a transvestite who flirts with Link either as a roleplaying thing or because he's gay/bi.

Bioware generally does pretty well-written gay and bi characters in their games (IDK about the newest Mass Effect, but historically they've been pretty good) so using them as a negative example just because their LGBT characters actually mention their sexuality (in a game where you can literally romance them) kinda suggests that you believe gay characters shouldn't actually exist.

The fact that you can't have a character mention his husband or boyfriend or whatever without it being "pandering", while literally several dozen characters explicitly mention their preference for the opposite sex, is really f***ed up, but of course people will just continue to whine that gay people are "over-represented" in games and any attempt to actually depict one is just "forcing" it in.

I had to deal with being unable to talk about my sexuality (such as relationships, preferences, etc.) in any capacity while at work every week of my life, for years going on, because I'm quite aware of the fact that my boss was somewhat racist, sexist, and homophobic based on how he talks about these groups on a regular basis. I had to just nod along while my co-workers talked about how hot various women were and mocked me for being too shy to get a girl while I was in my fifth year of my relationship with another man. Depending on where you live and work, you can seriously have to pick and choose who you talk to openly.

So forgive me if I get just a little bit pissy when people suggest that games shouldn't go so far as to actually explicitly acknowledge that some characters are gay.


Some folks aren't happy unless the gay characters are well hidden or rendered solely as tokens just out of the way. 

Put in a gay character that's obvious, no matter how well written? "SJW PANDERING!"

Put in a gay character real subtle like? "Stop reading gay stuff into it! It's not canon!"

Creators are better off not bending over backwards trying to please those who would have them walk on eggshells and simply focus on writing characters as people(who are sometimes gay) instead.


Well why don't we put in other characters with mental disorders, like depression or social anxiety. I want to be represented too.
I wouldn't say anything in this game is pandering or even relating to the LGBT people at all! it looks like normal quirky Japanese writing to me? There is always that super flamboyant gay guy who you aren't just quite sure if he's gay?(bolson) 

And anyways I would like none of that to be in my games ever! 

Gay characters are fine! But the other stuff is just annoying!
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Flash2Beasley 3 hours ago#20
AshkeAngel posted...
the_rowan posted...
This game does not actually have LGBT representation in any meaningful sense so IDK? I like Bolson, but throwing in a bunch of stereotypes as just kind of a joke doesn't really send any kind of message. Vilia doesn't represent trans people in any realistic capacity (what trans woman doesn't shave their face?) so I have no idea what he/she is supposed to be other than just a transvestite who flirts with Link either as a roleplaying thing or because he's gay/bi.

Bioware generally does pretty well-written gay and bi characters in their games (IDK about the newest Mass Effect, but historically they've been pretty good) so using them as a negative example just because their LGBT characters actually mention their sexuality (in a game where you can literally romance them) kinda suggests that you believe gay characters shouldn't actually exist.

The fact that you can't have a character mention his husband or boyfriend or whatever without it being "pandering", while literally several dozen characters explicitly mention their preference for the opposite sex, is really f***ed up, but of course people will just continue to whine that gay people are "over-represented" in games and any attempt to actually depict one is just "forcing" it in.

I had to deal with being unable to talk about my sexuality (such as relationships, preferences, etc.) in any capacity while at work every week of my life, for years going on, because I'm quite aware of the fact that my boss was somewhat racist, sexist, and homophobic based on how he talks about these groups on a regular basis. I had to just nod along while my co-workers talked about how hot various women were and mocked me for being too shy to get a girl while I was in my fifth year of my relationship with another man. Depending on where you live and work, you can seriously have to pick and choose who you talk to openly.

So forgive me if I get just a little bit pissy when people suggest that games shouldn't go so far as to actually explicitly acknowledge that some characters are gay.


Some folks aren't happy unless the gay characters are well hidden or rendered solely as tokens just out of the way. 

Put in a gay character that's obvious, no matter how well written? "SJW PANDERING!"

Put in a gay character real subtle like? "Stop reading gay stuff into it! It's not canon!"

Creators are better off not bending over backwards trying to please those who would have them walk on eggshells and simply focus on writing characters as people(who are sometimes gay) instead.

Conversely, some folks aren't happy unless there are gay characters, and they have to be romanceable as well. Which is why now in Bioware games pretty much every character is main-character-sexual. 

I think Dragon Age Origins did it the best of any game I've played... two bi characters that didn't get pushy with it and only brought it up if you talked often with them, and it wasn't a major defining character trait of theirs, just, oh btw they are cool with the same sex. 

Then we hit the 2010's, and the era of SJW's and pandering, and now every sexuality has to have full representation in every game. DA 2 where literally every. single. character. was bi, just so nobody could be offended, DA:I where a character's defining trait was being trans and there were more gay party member romances than straight ones... 

It is what it is, but personally I prefer games that don't put such a huge emphasis on that stuff, thanks Nintendo.
Mofuji 3 hours ago#21
Stop trying to push an agenda on a game that doesn't give a damn about your agenda.
"Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
Stanger5150 2 hours ago#22
I think a lot of people just need to shut the f*** up.


It's a f***ing video game, set in a fantasy world. For all we know, Hyrule doesn't have the same social values or grievances as the U.S.

In fact, the Hylians have bigger f***ing problems. If it was a game set in the U.S. as a realistic setting with social commentary, this debate would have a place.

But it's not... it's Zelda... in f***ing Hyrule. No need to impose our reality onto that world. Sometimes we need gaming as an escape, and sometimes I'd just much rather deal with the f***ing Calamity.

Goddamnit.
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SythisTaru 2 hours ago#23
Stanger5150 posted...
Hyrule doesn't have the same social values or grievances as the U.S.


Who says we in the U.S.? It's legal here. It's the rest of the countries in the world were homosexuality is still illegal.
Stanger5150 2 hours ago#24
SythisTaru posted...
Stanger5150 posted...
Hyrule doesn't have the same social values or grievances as the U.S.


Who says we in the U.S.? It's legal here. It's the rest of the countries in the world were homosexuality is still illegal.


Right, but it's primarily the U.S. that picks up the pitchforks. Replace "U.S." with "earth" if it makes you happy. I can really only speak for the things I witness as a citizen of the U.S.

The point still stands.

For all we know, Hyrule probably got over inequality or never allowed it to begin with... since they always have to join together to fight larger threats.

Either way, we don't need to project our social values into every f***ing work of fiction. It's ok to create things outside of the real world.
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Mofuji 2 hours ago#25
Hyrule is egalitarian because there are both old men AND old women in caves!
"Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
longnuts 2 hours ago#26
Why the f*** does anybody care about the sexual orientation of any character in this game when absolutely 0% of the game is about sex?
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SythisTaru 2 hours ago#27
Stanger5150 posted...
SythisTaru posted...
Stanger5150 posted...
Hyrule doesn't have the same social values or grievances as the U.S.


Who says we in the U.S.? It's legal here. It's the rest of the countries in the world were homosexuality is still illegal.


Right, but it's primarily the U.S. that picks up the pitchforks. Replace "U.S." with "earth" if it makes you happy. I can really only speak for the things I witness as a citizen of the U.S.

The point still stands.

For all we know, Hyrule probably got over inequality or never allowed it to begin with... since they always have to join together to fight larger threats.

Either way, we don't need to project our social values into every f***ing work of fiction. It's ok to create things outside of the real world.


We are some of the most (if not THE most) open people on the planet. The internet and news make us seem like bigots, but it's much worse in every other country I've been to.
AshkeAngel posted...
the_rowan posted...
Snip

Creators are better off not bending over backwards trying to please those who would have them walk on eggshells and simply focus on writing characters as people(who are sometimes gay) instead.

Assassin's Creed II and Brotherhood did a great job with a gay character--Leonardo Da Vinci. Now, we don't know for CERTAIN if he was gay in our RL history, but in the AC lore, they portray him as gay, and yet, they do not push his homosexuality in our face.

Rather, he is a well-written character and core to the story, especially with AC2. So, basically, yeah, that's what you're talking about here in what I quoted. Ubisoft wrote up their vision of Leonardo Da Vinci as a character, not to be a representative of the LGBT community. And they made a great character out of him.
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Mofuji 2 hours ago#29
Hey, Loone was about ready to drop her... whatever it is they wear under their pants in Hyrule for Roscoe.
"Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
Stanger5150 2 hours ago#30
longnuts posted...
Why the f*** does anybody care about the sexual orientation of any character in this game when absolutely 0% of the game is about sex?


Absolutely!

Half of Hyrule could be gay, trans, or bi for all we know... they just don't mention it in conversation. Why would they? Sexuality and gender identity do not define the person.

I feel uncomfortable when people randomly tell me their sexuality when they're not trying to have sex with me... seriously, why do people insist on labeling themselves as if that defines who they are? I don't go out of my way to tell people if I'm heterosexual, and if some random person asked me, I'd tell them it's none of their goddamn business. Are you married to me? Are you trying to sleep with me? Why the f*** are you asking then?
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Now Playing: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Gaawa_chan 2 hours ago#31
Most of the time, minority reps in video games are either:

1. the butt of a banal joke, like in BotW. This happens more often in video games and tbh, I find it to be a hell of a lot more annoying, mostly because it gets really old really fast.

2. way too overt, to the point where their minority status is practically the only trait of the character that gets much focus, resulting in the character being rather one-note. It often feels like they're trying to compensate for the plague of comedic portrayals rather than focusing on making a well-rounded and interesting character. Bioware has examples of characters that suffer from this, but it's managed to avoid it several times, too.
Hi
UlNin 2 hours ago#32
SythisTaru posted...
Well why don't we put in other characters with mental disorders, like depression or social anxiety. I want to be represented too.


What about Paya, or that dude at the heart pond, or Beedle, or Kilton?
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Stanger5150 2 hours ago#33
UlNin posted...
SythisTaru posted...
Well why don't we put in other characters with mental disorders, like depression or social anxiety. I want to be represented too.


What about Paya, or that dude at the heart pond, or Beedle, or Kilton?


As someone who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder ten years ago, I don't look for representation.

In fact, gaming is my escape from it and is actually an important part of my treatment plan.

Kilton is f***ed though...
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Mofuji 2 hours ago#34
Kilton is the best, because he realizes that Link is, in-fact, the real monster in all of this.
"Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
Stanger5150 2 hours ago#35
Mofuji posted...
Kilton is the best, because he realizes that Link is, in-fact, the real monster in all of this.


He's certainly one of Nintendo's most interesting creations, along with Birdo.
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(edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
SythisTaru 2 hours ago#36
isn't Kilton the fat guy who sells worthless stuff?
fatboy326556 2 hours ago#37
Who gives a s*** it's a game
Fat in all the right places;)
Gunz77 2 hours ago#38
The real question: Does it really matter? It's a video game, not some grand narrative on modern social issues.
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fatboy326556 2 hours ago#39
Gunz77 posted...
The real question: Does it really matter? It's a video game, not some grand narrative on modern social issues.

Exactly, live and let live braj's and brajettes's
Fat in all the right places;)
Stanger5150 2 hours ago#40
SythisTaru posted...
isn't Kilton the fat guy who sells worthless stuff?


Kilton is the guy in the balloon who sells the Dark Link armor and invented his own currency cuz he f***ing can.
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zonobia 2 hours ago#41
konokonohamaru posted...
what do you think of LGBT representation in Zelda BotW?


I don't. Sexual orientation really isn't relevant in this game...so why turn it into a topic of discussion?
I think it's unnecessary and I laugh at people who are concerned about such trivial things.
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the_rowan 1 hour ago#43
Stanger5150 posted...
I feel uncomfortable when people randomly tell me their sexuality when they're not trying to have sex with me... seriously, why do people insist on labeling themselves as if that defines who they are? I don't go out of my way to tell people if I'm heterosexual, and if some random person asked me, I'd tell them it's none of their goddamn business. Are you married to me? Are you trying to sleep with me? Why the f*** are you asking then?


Bulls***. Complete and utter bulls***. There are easily at least thirty characters in this game, probably more, that explicitly mention their sexuality to you. You are just a homophobe. It is completely and totally natural to talk about one's family, and guess what, gay couples are families too. Plenty of people in this game randomly talk about girls or guys they have crushes on, but you don't care because they're straight. You are a hypocrite and a liar.
"That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia
(edited 1 hour ago)reportquote
Dire 1 hour ago#44
Flash2Beasley posted...
I'll never understand the need for certain societies to celebrate a biological defect. You don't have to chastise it either, but to outwardly celebrate it and try to normalize it? Eh.

Reported. Enjoy your ban.
ecylis 1 hour ago#45
if you think mods will ban for that you're out of your mind

worst that happens is they lose 3 karma and post is deleted but more than likely nothing will happen at all
Bolson isn't gay. He's straight. But flamboyant.

Sidon however isn't fooling anyone.
Gargomon251 1 hour ago#47
I think it doesn't matter, and I don't care.

longnuts posted...
Why the f*** does anybody care about the sexual orientation of any character in this game when absolutely 0% of the game is about sex?


Also I think it's sad that 90% of the fanart of Kass is gay even though he has a canon wife and children.
I'm sick of off topic threads and abusive mods.
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(edited 1 hour ago)reportquote
Gargomon251 posted...
I think it doesn't matter, and I don't care.

longnuts posted...
Why the f*** does anybody care about the sexual orientation of any character in this game when absolutely 0% of the game is about sex?


Also I think it's sad that 90% of the fanart of Kass is gay even though he has a canon wife and children.


Holy s*** you're on no fun allowed mode 24/7
Here comes... FINAL JUSTICE!!
Stanger5150 1 hour ago#49
the_rowan posted...
Stanger5150 posted...
I feel uncomfortable when people randomly tell me their sexuality when they're not trying to have sex with me... seriously, why do people insist on labeling themselves as if that defines who they are? I don't go out of my way to tell people if I'm heterosexual, and if some random person asked me, I'd tell them it's none of their goddamn business. Are you married to me? Are you trying to sleep with me? Why the f*** are you asking then?


Bulls***. Complete and utter bulls***. There are easily at least thirty characters in this game, probably more, that explicitly mention their sexuality to you. You are just a homophobe. It is completely and totally natural to talk about one's family, and guess what, gay couples are families too. Plenty of people in this game randomly talk about girls or guys they have crushes on, but you don't care because they're straight. You are a hypocrite and a liar.


I actually am, and always have been a stern advocate for gay rights.

I guess I missed those references though. I would've missed it if a gay character talked about her wife too. It's the same thing to me.
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the_rowan 1 hour ago#50
Gargomon251 posted...
Also I think it's sad that 90% of the fanart of Kass is gay even though he has a canon wife and children.


You do realize the whole reason for this is that there are a f***ton of gay artists and fans who are head over heels for Kass, right? People are buying YCHs with him on one hand, and drawing him because they think he's dreamy on the other. I don't see why him being straight is relevant. Don't suppose you were complaining the last 20 years that roughly 75% of fanart of Fox McCloud is gay?
"That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia
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  3. what do you think of LGBT representation in Zelda BotW?
    Mofuji 1 hour ago#51
    the_rowan posted...
    Stanger5150 posted...
    I feel uncomfortable when people randomly tell me their sexuality when they're not trying to have sex with me... seriously, why do people insist on labeling themselves as if that defines who they are? I don't go out of my way to tell people if I'm heterosexual, and if some random person asked me, I'd tell them it's none of their goddamn business. Are you married to me? Are you trying to sleep with me? Why the f*** are you asking then?


    Bulls***. Complete and utter bulls***. There are easily at least thirty characters in this game, probably more, that explicitly mention their sexuality to you. You are just a homophobe. It is completely and totally natural to talk about one's family, and guess what, gay couples are families too. Plenty of people in this game randomly talk about girls or guys they have crushes on, but you don't care because they're straight. You are a hypocrite and a liar.


    So do you have a persecution complex, or do you just get offended for others out of habit to make yourself look better to others?
    "Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
    unnecessary
    (lol
    pokemon sun fc : 3110-7260-6193 Ign : aoko
    In a big, wide open world like this that is somewhat based on our own, you would think a good looking guy like Link would catch the attention of some dudes. Which he does, it seems.

    I think the representation is fine.
    "Link is hot." ~ Reggie Fils-Aime, President of Nintendo of America
    Mofuji 1 hour ago#55
    It's his super adorable shivering animation that gets the guys. They want to warm him all the way through.
    "Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
    the_rowan 1 hour ago#56
    Stanger5150 posted...
    I actually am, and always have been a stern advocate for gay rights.

    I guess I missed those references though. I would've missed it if a gay character talked about her wife too. It's the same thing to me.


    Well, okay, if you're gonna be honest about things:

    Multiple Zora women express attraction to Prince Sidon or Link
    Multiple male traders in the bazaar area express attraction to Gerudo women or Link (while under the impression he is female)
    At least a dozen Gerudo talk about finding husbands, the husbands they have, or their attempts at dating men. Men are even a subject among the children.
    There's a sidequest where you bring a Zora girl and a Hylian man together
    There's a sidequest where you try to help a guy "impress" (in a weird stalker-ish way) a female innkeeper
    There's a sidequest where you bring a wimpy guy and a Gerudo woman together
    There are (off the top of my head) at least two canonically married Rito couples, three couples in Tarrey town (at least one of which is canonically married and one of which has childred), a few in Hateno and Lurelin (though I didn't spend enough time around there to count how many people are actually living together or talk about being together), and at least one in Zora's Domain.
    Several people in Kakariko do business with their spouse, or talk about what their spouse does in the village, or talk about their spouse that has now left them or travels.
    Zelda, Paya, and Mipha explicitly have crushes on Link (more than that in Mipha's case)
    Carson mentions his wife at one point IIRC
    Robbie is married to his assistant

    And then on the flip side, you have Bolson making off-hand remarks about how Link is attractive ("perky" with some musical notes in the text, I believe--it's in a manner where it's hard to tell how serious he is) and Vilia saying he/she would like to date him in a very ambiguous context (could be a roleplaying thing, could just be messing with Link, could mean it, but it's not a serious proposal). No mentions of guys who want to get home to their husband, women advertising for their wife's business, no guys falling for Link while they know he's a guy (I mean, as much as we like to pretend Sidon does...), no one nonchalantly dropping that they think someone of the same sex is attractive.

    This is the kind of erasure I'm talking about. And yet even though it would totally make sense to see this sort of thing given how many people there are in the world, any attempt to include it would be met with an army of people whining about how it's "pandering" to stop living in the last century. Media is supposed to reflect reality, and games still being an exception to that (likely stemming from their Japanese roots) really reflects poorly on them.
    "That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia
    (edited 1 hour ago)reportquote
    Mofuji 53 minutes ago#57
    So you're saying that if things do not conform to your agenda, that are out of touch with supposed reality and it's a poor reflection on them to not do so.

    Cool beans.
    "Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
    Gaawa_chan 53 minutes ago#58
    Rowan is correct. It's very common for straight characters to express their sexuality to the player. It's just that players are so used to that happening with straight characters that when gay characters do the same thing, it stands out, especially if it's framed as being comedic in and of itself.

    I mean, let's face it; BotW gave a pedo fuel pairing between a zora and hylian more serious framing than the gay characters. I'm honestly still a little shocked about that side-quest.
    Hi
    (edited 52 minutes ago)reportquote
    Mofuji 49 minutes ago#59
    The struggle is real.

    g4gi3fz
    "Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
    the_rowan 48 minutes ago#60
    Mofuji posted...
    So you're saying that if things do not conform to your agenda, that are out of touch with supposed reality and it's a poor reflection on them to not do so.

    Cool beans.


    You can really tell when people are truly a******s when they refuse to acknowledge that gay people even exist in reality.
    "That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia
    Mofuji 42 minutes ago#61
    the_rowan posted...
    Mofuji posted...
    So you're saying that if things do not conform to your agenda, that are out of touch with supposed reality and it's a poor reflection on them to not do so.

    Cool beans.


    You can really tell when people are truly a******s when they refuse to acknowledge that gay people even exist in reality.

    You can tell people have an agenda when they claim to want acceptance and then define who and what you are to nearly put them into an enemies list.
    "Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
    M-Watcher 41 minutes ago#62
    the_rowan posted...
    Media is supposed to reflect reality, and games still being an exception to that (likely stemming from their Japanese roots) really reflects poorly on them.

    What do people really ask when they want something to reflect reality?

    LGBT is around 2% of the population, give or take. Therefore, in order to reflect reality, 2% of the characters would need to be in that group, right?

    So, in a setting with 100 characters, you are asking for at least 2 of them to fit in that group, right?
    NNID: MWatcher27 / 3DS FC: 1203 - 9408 - 2283
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    (edited 40 minutes ago)reportquote
    Gargomon251 40 minutes ago#63
    So exactly how many characters in this game are PROVEN to be LGBT and not just speculated?
    I'm sick of off topic threads and abusive mods.
    u/Gargomon251
    Flash2Beasley 37 minutes ago#64
    M-Watcher posted...
    the_rowan posted...
    Media is supposed to reflect reality, and games still being an exception to that (likely stemming from their Japanese roots) really reflects poorly on them.

    What do people really ask when they want something to reflect reality?

    LGBT is around 2% of the population, give or take. Therefore, in order to reflect reality, 2% of the characters would need to be in that group, right?

    So, in a setting with 100 characters, you are asking for at least 2 of them to fit in that group, right?

    Besides the fact that, the reality being portrayed is one of a medieval fantasy setting (outside the magic sheikah tech), and homosexuality has never been widely accepted in those settings to begin with. 

    This reminds me of people claiming the Witcher devs were racist for not including black characters, in a game based largely on slavic mythology.
    (edited 37 minutes ago)reportquote
    Mofuji 35 minutes ago#65
    Flash2Beasley posted...
    M-Watcher posted...
    the_rowan posted...
    Media is supposed to reflect reality, and games still being an exception to that (likely stemming from their Japanese roots) really reflects poorly on them.

    What do people really ask when they want something to reflect reality?

    LGBT is around 2% of the population, give or take. Therefore, in order to reflect reality, 2% of the characters would need to be in that group, right?

    So, in a setting with 100 characters, you are asking for at least 2 of them to fit in that group, right?

    Besides the fact that, the reality being portrayed is one of a medieval fantasy setting (outside the magic sheikah tech), and homosexuality has never been widely accepted in those settings to begin with. 

    This reminds me of people claiming the Witcher devs were racist for not including black characters, in a game based largely on slavic mythology.

    Historical accuracy is racist, just like facts and science.
    "Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
    Gaawa_chan 35 minutes ago#66
    ^ What does historical accuracy have to do with Zelda's setting? Lol? But in this game, Hyrule is NOT a medieval depiction. It's a meshing of scifi, fantasy, and post-apocalyptic. The nation/culture is far older than a standard medieval setting. Trying to make assumptions about societal depictions in Hyrule based off of medieval European cultures is a bit... well, there's no point in doing so. Hyrule hasn't been an accurate depiction of medieval Europe (or medieval anywhere) in ANY game, anyway.

    Going off on a tangent, that Witcher thing was actually not as far-fetched as you might believe due to the existence of medieval trade routes. While I do think the whole issue was blown way out of proportion, detractors had a point, whether people want to admit it or not. If they were going for historical accuracy, they probably should have included people of different ethnic backgrounds. All they really had to do to justify the non-inclusion was to say that it's a fantasy setting, but they didn't. Oops.


    Gargomon251 posted...
    So exactly how many characters in this game are PROVEN to be LGBT and not just speculated?

    None.

    Some people assume Vilia is an offensive trans portrayal, but as far as I can tell from the game itself, Vilia is just using the outfit as a disguise for economic profit.

    Bolson is flamboyant but it isn't outright stated that he's gay, though I think the writers probably intended him to be camp gay because of how overt it is.
    Hi
    (edited 26 minutes ago)reportquote
    Metal_Mario99 34 minutes ago#67
    Stanger5150 posted...
    the_rowan posted...
    Stanger5150 posted...
    I feel uncomfortable when people randomly tell me their sexuality when they're not trying to have sex with me... seriously, why do people insist on labeling themselves as if that defines who they are? I don't go out of my way to tell people if I'm heterosexual, and if some random person asked me, I'd tell them it's none of their goddamn business. Are you married to me? Are you trying to sleep with me? Why the f*** are you asking then?


    Bulls***. Complete and utter bulls***. There are easily at least thirty characters in this game, probably more, that explicitly mention their sexuality to you. You are just a homophobe. It is completely and totally natural to talk about one's family, and guess what, gay couples are families too. Plenty of people in this game randomly talk about girls or guys they have crushes on, but you don't care because they're straight. You are a hypocrite and a liar.


    I actually am, and always have been a stern advocate for gay rights.

    Nope. Sorry. A liberal has decided you're a homophobe, so that's the end of the argument.
    The GameFAQs mods are terrible at their job.
    Mofuji 32 minutes ago#68
    Metal_Mario99 posted...
    Stanger5150 posted...
    the_rowan posted...
    Stanger5150 posted...
    I feel uncomfortable when people randomly tell me their sexuality when they're not trying to have sex with me... seriously, why do people insist on labeling themselves as if that defines who they are? I don't go out of my way to tell people if I'm heterosexual, and if some random person asked me, I'd tell them it's none of their goddamn business. Are you married to me? Are you trying to sleep with me? Why the f*** are you asking then?


    Bulls***. Complete and utter bulls***. There are easily at least thirty characters in this game, probably more, that explicitly mention their sexuality to you. You are just a homophobe. It is completely and totally natural to talk about one's family, and guess what, gay couples are families too. Plenty of people in this game randomly talk about girls or guys they have crushes on, but you don't care because they're straight. You are a hypocrite and a liar.


    I actually am, and always have been a stern advocate for gay rights.

    Nope. Sorry. A liberal has decided you're a homophobe, so that's the end of the argument.

    Pretty much, because they're the authority on what is and isn't reality. Just like homosexuals who tell you that you don't exist.
    "Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
    TheCraigadile 30 minutes ago#69
    Well Hyrule is in a medieval setting right. If it's similar to our medieval time period, homosexuality could be punishable by death. While there isn't really anyone around to enforce it, it could just be a thing that kids are taught.
    Edit: Sheikah'd.
    "..."-Link
    I don't have anything good to go here so have a llama: https://i.imgur.com/e5Gm6Kb.jpg
    (edited 29 minutes ago)reportquote
    the_rowan 28 minutes ago#70
    M-Watcher posted...
    LGBT is around 2% of the population, give or take. Therefore, in order to reflect reality, 2% of the characters would need to be in that group, right?

    So, in a setting with 100 characters, you are asking for at least 2 of them to fit in that group, right?


    LGBT is definitely more than 2%. I dunno why this number keeps going down when people cite it; Gallup's 2016 data had it at 4.1% for the US based on a sampling of over 1.6 million people collected over five years, and that's actually one of the lower numbers of recent polls. This survey http://promundoglobal.org/resources/man-box-study-young-man-us-uk-mexico/ was run by a marketing group this year, and found that specifically for men between ages 18 and 30 in the US, UK, and Mexico, roughly 11% identified as LGBT (it's on page 18).

    I have no idea how many NPCs are actually in BotW, but keeping the same ratio of people who actually have reason to tell you or show you their orientation (they're happy to talk about their partner, they're advertising their business, they're living together, they have a crush on you, etc.) there should be three or so people proportionately.
    "That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia
    (edited 20 minutes ago)reportquote
    M-Watcher 27 minutes ago#71
    Flash2Beasley posted...

    This reminds me of people claiming the Witcher devs were racist for not including black characters, in a game based largely on slavic mythology.

    Almost like some people just want an agenda to be filled and not actually look at the product being presented and find the reasons why it is set up the way it is.

    Sure, if you have a setting based in modern day New York City and there is a lack of black or Jewish or Hispanic or whatever people, then you may question the writer's choices. Obviously, this line of reasoning for being peeved at writer choices doesn't apply to all works of fiction, because as with everything, it varies.
    NNID: MWatcher27 / 3DS FC: 1203 - 9408 - 2283
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    BravelordSpeedo 23 minutes ago#72
    Four words.



    What does it matter.
    "If I can go a day knowing I made someone else's day TANGIBLY worse, that was a good day."
    ~Pat Boivin, The Zaibatsu
    Flash2Beasley 20 minutes ago#73
    the_rowan posted...


    I have no idea how many NPCs are actually in BotW, but keeping the same ratio of people who actually have reason to tell you or show you their orientation (they're happy to talk about their partner, they're advertising their business, they're living together, they have a crush on you, etc.) there should be three or so people proportionately.


    And if they actually designed the game's NPC's with this mindset, you would get cookie cutter token gay characters to fit the quota you just described. Or, they could just do what they do and not try to include every single possible group so as to avoid the possibility of offending someone or failing to make them feel included. 

    Similarly, this game has very few children compared to adult NPC's. Where are the complaints about that? That's clearly a huge departure from reality, many magnitudes larger than being short 2 or 3 talkative gay NPC's.
    konokonohamaru 17 minutes ago#74
    BravelordSpeedo posted...
    Four words.



    What does it matter.


    It matters to people judging by the number of posts
    ViewtifulGene 16 minutes ago#75
    Having committed the Cardinal sin of being born a straight white guy, it doesn't bother me too much either way. I do think the "humor" behind Bolson and the cross dresser are a bit tired though. Not horrible, just uninteresting. 

    Oh wow the token gays are flamboyant guys. How exciting. 

    IDK. I look at a character like Ghirahim and think the flamboyance makes him entertaining when combined with his other traits. I look at a character like the guy who hooks you up with womens' clothes and there's nothing to him besides how he princes around.
    "Once again, ViewtifulGene's logic blows minds and crushes dreams." -TheGamingGolfer
    Currently playing: Cenakuni: Rath Of the White Rapper
    Mofuji 15 minutes ago#76
    Flash2Beasley posted...
    the_rowan posted...


    I have no idea how many NPCs are actually in BotW, but keeping the same ratio of people who actually have reason to tell you or show you their orientation (they're happy to talk about their partner, they're advertising their business, they're living together, they have a crush on you, etc.) there should be three or so people proportionately.


    And if they actually designed the game's NPC's with this mindset, you would get cookie cutter token gay characters to fit the quota you just described. Or, they could just do what they do and not try to include every single possible group so as to avoid the possibility of offending someone or failing to make them feel included. 

    Similarly, this game has very few children compared to adult NPC's. Where are the complaints about that? That's clearly a huge departure from reality, many magnitudes larger than being short 2 or 3 talkative gay NPC's.

    What about people who don't worship Hylia? This is a very problematic issue, there should be a diversity of faith!
    "Youkai is evil because Youaki is bad. And I'm gonna exterminate them." ~ Reimu Hakurei during the 2016 US Presidential Campaign
    WhyitEarp 14 minutes ago#77
    I still don't know why companies want to pander to the 1%
    Gargomon251 11 minutes ago#78
    Gaawa_chan posted...
    Gargomon251 posted...
    So exactly how many characters in this game are PROVEN to be LGBT and not just speculated?

    None.

    Some people assume Vilia is an offensive trans portrayal, but as far as I can tell from the game itself, Vilia is just using the outfit as a disguise for economic profit.

    Bolson is flamboyant but it isn't outright stated that he's gay, though I think the writers probably intended him to be camp gay because of how overt it is.

    Just as I suspected. More people making issues where there are none.
    I'm sick of off topic threads and abusive mods.
    u/Gargomon251
    Flash2Beasley 11 minutes ago#79
    WhyitEarp posted...
    I still don't know why companies want to pander to the 1%

    Because the 1% has been co-opted by other groups in order to gain political power, and now they have said political power themselves (or at least the illusion of it anyways, not in any way that truly matters).
    Recklesscat313 7 minutes ago#80
    the_rowan posted...
    This game does not actually have LGBT representation in any meaningful sense so IDK? I like Bolson, but throwing in a bunch of stereotypes as just kind of a joke doesn't really send any kind of message. Vilia doesn't represent trans people in any realistic capacity (what trans woman doesn't shave their face?) so I have no idea what he/she is supposed to be other than just a transvestite who flirts with Link either as a roleplaying thing or because he's gay/bi.

    Bioware generally does pretty well-written gay and bi characters in their games (IDK about the newest Mass Effect, but historically they've been pretty good) so using them as a negative example just because their LGBT characters actually mention their sexuality (in a game where you can literally romance them) kinda suggests that you believe gay characters shouldn't actually exist.

    The fact that you can't have a character mention his husband or boyfriend or whatever without it being "pandering", while literally several dozen characters explicitly mention their preference for the opposite sex, is really f***ed up, but of course people will just continue to whine that gay people are "over-represented" in games and any attempt to actually depict one is just "forcing" it in.

    I had to deal with being unable to talk about my sexuality (such as relationships, preferences, etc.) in any capacity while at work every week of my life, for years going on, because I'm quite aware of the fact that my boss was somewhat racist, sexist, and homophobic based on how he talks about these groups on a regular basis. I had to just nod along while my co-workers talked about how hot various women were and mocked me for being too shy to get a girl while I was in my fifth year of my relationship with another man. Depending on where you live and work, you can seriously have to pick and choose who you talk to openly.

    So forgive me if I get just a little bit pissy when people suggest that games shouldn't go so far as to actually explicitly acknowledge that some characters are gay.


    Well said.
    Why would I care about your opinion? You're an idiot.
    Gaawa_chan 7 minutes ago#81
    M-Watcher posted...
    Flash2Beasley posted...

    This reminds me of people claiming the Witcher devs were racist for not including black characters, in a game based largely on slavic mythology.

    Almost like some people just want an agenda to be filled and not actually look at the product being presented and find the reasons why it is set up the way it is.

    *Sigh*

    This seems like a roundabout way of showing the world that you guys know nothing about history.

    Putting aside more wholesome trade routes that people of various ethnic backgrounds participated in at the time, the slavic peoples were involved in the slave trade rather heavily during the medieval era. As a result, the population of black people was not insignificant, if for rather unpleasant reasons.

    If you're going to make the argument that a game is going for historical accuracy, then it had damn well better be accurate. If it's not, then the argument falls apart. I don't doubt that the Witcher is a great game, but FFS, use arguments that actually hold water. Here; I'll even throw you one I came up with off the top of my head.

    The Witcher is based off a book series. Perhaps there are no black characters in the book. The Witcher is a fantasy series that doesn't take place in the real world. Why should it have the same ethnic patterns as the real world?

    Took me ten seconds to come up with two better excuses than yours.
    Hi
    (edited 4 minutes ago)reportquote
    FM_TimL 6 minutes ago#82
    I find the lack of Liquor, Guns, Bacon and t*** disturbing.
    ZimbabweBob 4 minutes ago#83
    I dont.
    "Video games are meant to be just one thing. Fun. Fun for everyone."- Satoru Iwata
    NNID/PSN: ZimbabweBob
    the_rowan 4 minutes ago#84
    Flash2Beasley posted...
    the_rowan posted...


    I have no idea how many NPCs are actually in BotW, but keeping the same ratio of people who actually have reason to tell you or show you their orientation (they're happy to talk about their partner, they're advertising their business, they're living together, they have a crush on you, etc.) there should be three or so people proportionately.


    And if they actually designed the game's NPC's with this mindset, you would get cookie cutter token gay characters to fit the quota you just described. Or, they could just do what they do and not try to include every single possible group so as to avoid the possibility of offending someone or failing to make them feel included. 

    Similarly, this game has very few children compared to adult NPC's. Where are the complaints about that? That's clearly a huge departure from reality, many magnitudes larger than being short 2 or 3 talkative gay NPC's.


    I don't see what the problem is with characters who are just incidentally gay in this sort of game? Like almost none of the characters in this game matter at all. So why does it matter if there's two guys who live together and talk about each other as real partners would?

    To be clear, I don't really care exactly what BotW's specific gay representation is. The issue I started on, and the one I am fighting against, is the idea that the simple inclusion of gay characters for no real reason is pandering. Because the alternatives are the total exclusion of gay characters, or the bizarre twisting of entire stories to revolve around them.
    "That is why war is so tragic. To win means to make victims of your opponents and give birth to hatred." - Kratos Aurion, Tales of Symphonia
    MatthewTheLucky 2 minutes ago#85
    SythisTaru posted...
    AshkeAngel posted...
    the_rowan posted...
    This game does not actually have LGBT representation in any meaningful sense so IDK? I like Bolson, but throwing in a bunch of stereotypes as just kind of a joke doesn't really send any kind of message. Vilia doesn't represent trans people in any realistic capacity (what trans woman doesn't shave their face?) so I have no idea what he/she is supposed to be other than just a transvestite who flirts with Link either as a roleplaying thing or because he's gay/bi.

    Bioware generally does pretty well-written gay and bi characters in their games (IDK about the newest Mass Effect, but historically they've been pretty good) so using them as a negative example just because their LGBT characters actually mention their sexuality (in a game where you can literally romance them) kinda suggests that you believe gay characters shouldn't actually exist.

    The fact that you can't have a character mention his husband or boyfriend or whatever without it being "pandering", while literally several dozen characters explicitly mention their preference for the opposite sex, is really f***ed up, but of course people will just continue to whine that gay people are "over-represented" in games and any attempt to actually depict one is just "forcing" it in.

    I had to deal with being unable to talk about my sexuality (such as relationships, preferences, etc.) in any capacity while at work every week of my life, for years going on, because I'm quite aware of the fact that my boss was somewhat racist, sexist, and homophobic based on how he talks about these groups on a regular basis. I had to just nod along while my co-workers talked about how hot various women were and mocked me for being too shy to get a girl while I was in my fifth year of my relationship with another man. Depending on where you live and work, you can seriously have to pick and choose who you talk to openly.

    So forgive me if I get just a little bit pissy when people suggest that games shouldn't go so far as to actually explicitly acknowledge that some characters are gay.


    Some folks aren't happy unless the gay characters are well hidden or rendered solely as tokens just out of the way. 

    Put in a gay character that's obvious, no matter how well written? "SJW PANDERING!"

    Put in a gay character real subtle like? "Stop reading gay stuff into it! It's not canon!"

    Creators are better off not bending over backwards trying to please those who would have them walk on eggshells and simply focus on writing characters as people(who are sometimes gay) instead.


    Well why don't we put in other characters with mental disorders, like depression or social anxiety. I want to be represented too.

    There's enough depression in this game that one character thinks you're going to kill yourself if you try to dive off a bridge. As for social anxiety, one of the first characters in the main story can barely introduce herself.
    Million-to-one chances, she said, crop up nine times out of ten. -Equal Rites, Terry Pratchett
    HFireSyndrome 1 minute ago#86
    longnuts posted...
    Why the f*** does anybody care about the sexual orientation of any character in this game when absolutely 0% of the game is about sex?

    You haven't upgraded your armor fully, have you? 



    To the topic of this thread: It doesn't matter. This is a fictional game based in a world that is not our own. It involves fictional events that are not intended to parallel ones that happened in real life. As a result, there is no reason for any groups of any sort to have representation in them, and seeking any such representation is to waste effort on something completely unimportant.
    Anon :"So what's 'Hellfire Syndrome' anyway?"
    Me: "Ask your Doctor, you've been infected."
    Roxborough4Ever 43 seconds ago#87
    why does a childrens game need LGBT representation?
    You feast on red herring because it is your birthright.
    1. Boards
    2. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
    3. what do you think of LGBT representation in Zelda BotW?

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