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July 5, 2017

Is nintendo back to being hardcore.

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Rodrigo996 13 hours ago#1
I used to be a big nintendo fan. Heck the fact that my original old NES is still on my self next to my ps4 should tell you enought. Sadly last nintendo console i got was the GC. Imo it was the last good hardware nintendo made (before ns, heck maybe even better for its time). It just had it all: amazing exclusives (melee and metroid prime) along with so much third party goodness, like timespliters, prince of persia, RE4, etc, and great specs on top.

Yet with the wii, nintendo just seemed to go full casual. Im not an elitist, but i do enjoy a hardcore experience (bloodborne forced me to get a ps4 instead of a pc). So while i can like playing mario kart and letting the rng items destroy me, i like to go final destination no items fox only too. if nintendo made some casual games it was fine as long as they didnt forget what nintendo hard ment. Sadly it seems like they forgot about me, while they were trying to chase after grandma and soccer moms (something thats fine, great even) they forgot about the people that grew up getting destroyed by ninja gaiden on the nes.

Yet it seems they are finnaly going back. I have been a critic pf breath of the wild in some aspects, but the game took so many steps in the right direction: no handholding, the game is not afraid to kill you so that you learn, they teach you the basic mechanics and give you some tools, and then trust your inteligence as a person that you will use them. Not like other games *cought*TP*cought*.

Does this means they might come back to making products for both casual and hardcore players alike? I really hope they do.
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supremeblaster 12 hours ago#2
With Zelda and the return of Prime, yeah it really seems like it.

And I fully agree with you on the lack of handholding in Zelda. 

It's something a lot of people really don't appreciate about it; just how much it manages to teach you without ever guiding you through the process. There's entire mechanics you can just never know about because the game expects you to find out about them on your own. Not to mention you can literally go anywhere at any time and the only thing stopping you is your own strength. And of course Shrines can get really challenging at times, and the big dungeons really test your spacial awareness without ever really hinting at what you're supposed to do. It's pretty awesome overall and a massive leap forward after Skyward Sword.
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(edited 12 hours ago)reportquote
Mabus51 12 hours ago#3
If lack of developer support is considered hardcore. Then yeah Nintendo is the leader with that.
forte 12 hours ago#4
Mabus51 posted...
If lack of developer support is considered hardcore. Then yeah Nintendo is the leader with that.

Oh yeah? 140 third party developers working on over 200 titles(with plenty of yet to be announced AAAs ) 3 months into a system's life is a lack of support is it? Lol.
RollinHard 12 hours ago#5
forte posted...
Mabus51 posted...
If lack of developer support is considered hardcore. Then yeah Nintendo is the leader with that.

Oh yeah? 140 third party developers working on over 200 titles(with plenty of yet to be announced AAAs ) 3 months into a system's life is a lack of support is it? Lol.

Ignorant posts like Mabus51's are to be expected. The next type of ignorant post I expect to see is that Nintendo games are only kiddy games....edgy teens seem to enjoy posting in GFaqs too though.
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hyperdimeduck 12 hours ago#6
Looks like it.
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Rodrigo996 12 hours ago#7
RollinHard posted...
forte posted...
Mabus51 posted...
If lack of developer support is considered hardcore. Then yeah Nintendo is the leader with that.

Oh yeah? 140 third party developers working on over 200 titles(with plenty of yet to be announced AAAs ) 3 months into a system's life is a lack of support is it? Lol.

Ignorant posts like Mabus51's are to be expected. The next type of ignorant post I expect to see is that Nintendo games are only kiddy games....edgy teens seem to enjoy posting in GFaqs too though.

Come on guys dont be like that, you can disagree without that attitude.
Now playing: Prey
Waiting for: Red Dead Redemption 2 and Half Life 2.8 remix
The_DOAM 12 hours ago#8
Nintendo never stopped being hardcore

They've supported the old genres in their truest form for years now

Dang kids these days don't know nothin' they all think that graphics, violence, guns, and foul language are what makes a game hardcore. But games have been dumbed down beyond beleif during these last two generations.
Ignorance is Bliss...
Pharsti01 11 hours ago#9
Hmm, theres no difference.

Nintendo are the same as ever. For good and bad.
Trumpanzee 11 hours ago#10
Rodrigo996 posted...
I'm not an elitist, but i do enjoy a hardcore experience

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Terotrous 11 hours ago#11
The funny thing is that if anything, Switch is just going back to the Wii style of design.

ARMS is basically the kind of game you'd expect to have on Wii.
Mario Odyssey could draw obvious comparisons to Mario Galaxy, though I think it looks much better.
Wii was also the last system to have Metroid Prime.
The new Kirby game looks very similar to Return to Dreamland.
Though Wii didn't get one, the Yoshi game is much in the same vein.

About the only outlier is Splatoon, but even then, it easily could have appeared on Wii as a pointed-controlled title.
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ReggieCeo 11 hours ago#12
Super Mario 3D World = Casual
Super Mario Odyssey = Hardcore

Looks like it
Luigi could be in Super Mario Odyssey --> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j6fkHQb5l2w
king_madden 11 hours ago#13
forte posted...
Mabus51 posted...
If lack of developer support is considered hardcore. Then yeah Nintendo is the leader with that.

Oh yeah? 140 third party developers working on over 200 titles(with plenty of yet to be announced AAAs ) 3 months into a system's life is a lack of support is it? Lol.


We all know what's meant when people speak of developer support. They aren't talking indie. Look at the switch now, has hundreds of games, but go to a store and its not much retail wise and gives your average consumer the idea that its lacking support. If you see other systems get 200 games, 100 retail and 100 indie, but then see switch get 200, 25 retail 175 indie, people question it. 

Not saying indie is bad or anything, just saying its what people look at. Also how do you know its plenty of AAA games if they aren't announced?
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Retroxgamer0 11 hours ago#14
mario odyseey, zelda botw, and metroid prime 3 are much better games than the wii or wiiu could muster, so yeah prettymuch.
Mabus51 11 hours ago#15
forte posted...
Mabus51 posted...
If lack of developer support is considered hardcore. Then yeah Nintendo is the leader with that.

Oh yeah? 140 third party developers working on over 200 titles(with plenty of yet to be announced AAAs ) 3 months into a system's life is a lack of support is it? Lol.

There aren't 200 new AAA titles in the works. There isn't 200 titles even in the works for the other systems. If there were you would have seen more announcements during E3. The third party developers that have even commented on the system have all said it's a wait and see approach. Just like they did during the WiiU, which waited until it died. Indies & Ports only stall a systems lifeline. But with Nintendo's manufacturing problems and lack of developer support. This system is becoming another dud or a niche indie dump.
Trumpanzee 11 hours ago#16
Retroxgamer0 posted...
mario odyseey, zelda botw, and metroid prime 3 are much better games than thewiior wiiu could muster

Metroid Prime 3 was on the Wii. Also it's spelled "odyssey".
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king_madden 11 hours ago#17
Mabus51 posted...
There aren't 200 new AAA titles in the works. There isn't 200 titles even in the works for the other systems. If there were you would have seen more announcements during E3. The third party developers that have even commented on the system have all said it's a wait and see approach. Just like they did during the WiiU, which waited until it died. Indies & Ports only stall a systems lifeline. But with Nintendo's manufacturing problems and lack of developer support. This system is becoming another dud or a niche indie dump.


The systems likely have 200+ games being worked on, its just that its vast majority indie games so you won't really hear much about them
finally a new .Hack game! its been too long old friend.
forte 10 hours ago#18
Mabus51 posted...
forte posted...
Mabus51 posted...
If lack of developer support is considered hardcore. Then yeah Nintendo is the leader with that.

Oh yeah? 140 third party developers working on over 200 titles(with plenty of yet to be announced AAAs ) 3 months into a system's life is a lack of support is it? Lol.

There aren't 200 new AAA titles in the works. There isn't 200 titles even in the works for the other systems. If there were you would have seen more announcements during E3. The third party developers that have even commented on the system have all said it's a wait and see approach. Just like they did during the WiiU, which waited until it died. Indies & Ports only stall a systems lifeline. But with Nintendo's manufacturing problems and lack of developer support. This system is becoming another dud or a niche indie dump.


I never said all 200 were AAA...I said "plenty of AAA" what part of that sounded like "all 200 are AAA" to you?

As for devs taking the "wait and see"approach...
Er....can you link to developers saying that? I know Capcom said that about specifically bringing Street Fighter type games to Switch...but they were speaking about a very specific genre. Take two said they are feeling out what type of games they want to bring...but committed to bringing games, and in fact are providing one of the systems first big third party AAA titles.

So basically you read this on here and assumed it to be true? That's pretty dumb of you.

To my knowledge there is a hefty list of big name third party developers all working on projects for Switch.

As for what is announced...I get the impression a lot of them just started development, while others are still in the planning stage.....and with the incredible success of the switch you can imagine those who might take the wait and see approach are "seeing" a very successful and promising platform.

The real question is...what are your sources? Cause I haven't read that anywhere.

Here is my most recent source...but there are lots more confirming major AAA titles that have yet to be announced.

http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-not-specifically-making-games-for-esports-doug-bowser-on-what-went-right-with-switch-and-third-parties/
1,2 Switch says "no". Metroid Prime 4 says "yes". They're trying to appeal to everyone, but at least they aren't ignoring their core audience.

I believe Miyamoto, or Reggie, someone high up stated that they could no longer rely on the "casual" audience brought it with the Wii.
Ne-Rai.
KJP3 9 hours ago#20
forte posted...
Mabus51 posted...
forte posted...
Mabus51 posted...
If lack of developer support is considered hardcore. Then yeah Nintendo is the leader with that.

Oh yeah? 140 third party developers working on over 200 titles(with plenty of yet to be announced AAAs ) 3 months into a system's life is a lack of support is it? Lol.

There aren't 200 new AAA titles in the works. There isn't 200 titles even in the works for the other systems. If there were you would have seen more announcements during E3. The third party developers that have even commented on the system have all said it's a wait and see approach. Just like they did during the WiiU, which waited until it died. Indies & Ports only stall a systems lifeline. But with Nintendo's manufacturing problems and lack of developer support. This system is becoming another dud or a niche indie dump.


I never said all 200 were AAA...I said "plenty of AAA" what part of that sounded like "all 200 are AAA" to you?

As for devs taking the "wait and see"approach...
Er....can you link to developers saying that? I know Capcom said that about specifically bringing Street Fighter type games to Switch...but they were speaking about a very specific genre. Take two said they are feeling out what type of games they want to bring...but committed to bringing games, and in fact are providing one of the systems first big third party AAA titles.

So basically you read this on here and assumed it to be true? That's pretty dumb of you.

To my knowledge there is a hefty list of big name third party developers all working on projects for Switch.

As for what is announced...I get the impression a lot of them just started development, while others are still in the planning stage.....and with the incredible success of the switch you can imagine those who might take the wait and see approach are "seeing" a very successful and promising platform.

The real question is...what are your sources? Cause I haven't read that anywhere.

Here is my most recent source...but there are lots more confirming major AAA titles that have yet to be announced.

http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-not-specifically-making-games-for-esports-doug-bowser-on-what-went-right-with-switch-and-third-parties/

The Nintendo Switch can't keep Zelda at 30fps with 900p, can it really run a AAA title without it being choppy?
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KainFourteh 9 hours ago#21
Nope. Nintendo has and will always be for the casuals.
uberking422 9 hours ago#22
The term hardcore means less now than it ever did. Is Call of Duty hardcore? Then why do so many children play it? Is Super Mario Bros. casual? Then why do people dedicate themselves to speed running it? I try to avoid terms like "hardcore" or even "gamer" these days because they honestly reek of the isolationist horses*** that's causing the industry to stagnate.
Dark_SilverX 9 hours ago#23
They're the king of ported indies
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mattnd2007 9 hours ago#24
Nintendo is back, and I couldn't be happier. I had fun with the u, but it wasn't as good as the wii. Wii was f***ing awesome. Had some great games.
go join the "expletive not allowed" nazis then. you "expletive not allowed" psycho- Spudger 01/15/17
#25
(message deleted)
If they release a powerful console with standard controllers than they would revert back to being hardcore. Though knowing nintendo they would mess that up by using cassette tapes or something as the storage media.
Playing dat Persona 5!
Aldo1981 9 hours ago#27
mattnd2007 posted...
Nintendo is back, and I couldn't be happier. I had fun with the u, but it wasn't as good as the wii. Wii was f***ing awesome. Had some great games.


I agree with this statement, but replace Wii with Gamecube. I didn't really dig the Wii that much. I liked it's concept, but it wasn't implemented as well.
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.
mattnd2007 9 hours ago#28
Yeah, I can see that. I loved it for stuff like galaxy and punch out. I really hope we get a punch out for switch. I'd be all over that s***.
go join the "expletive not allowed" nazis then. you "expletive not allowed" psycho- Spudger 01/15/17
Marce316 9 hours ago#29
I don´t think that the Wii was less "hardcore" (hate those words) than the GameCube, it had Metroid Prime 3 and Other M, Fire Emblem, Trauma Center games, Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, Pandora´s Tower, Tatsunoko vs Capcom, Lost in Shadows, Sin and Punishment, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Monter Hunter Tri, No More Heroes, Madworld, Okami, and some more.
Torgo 9 hours ago#30
This topic makes me eyeroll.
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Aldo1981 9 hours ago#31
mattnd2007 posted...
Yeah, I can see that. I loved it for stuff like galaxy and punch out. I really hope we get a punch out for switch. I'd be all over that s***.



I think Galaxy was the last game I got on it before I switched over to Xbox 360 (Dead Rising won me over). Then I moved out of my parents house and left my Wii behind, so even if I wanted to try some of the later games on the system I never had one to play the games on.
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.
(edited 9 hours ago)reportquote
Endgame 9 hours ago#32
Zelda hasn't been about being Zelda since Twilight Princess and has been a delivery system for terrible gimmicks ever since Phantom Hourglass. BotW being casual as f*** with the lack of any real goal and enemies that you have to absolutely suck to get killed by. (Yeah, Lynels can one shot you. But they also telegraph their attacks then attack two seconds later, so.....)

Fire Emblem has only been getting more dumbed down with each new non-remake game since Sacred Stones, to the point where Sarah Palin could actually do well in any Neo-Fire Emblem in their highest difficulties. And now waifu simulator elements are the biggest draw to the franchise. (Fates even introduced god damn Phoenix Mode. Which was pointless because you can steamroll Lunatic Mode anyway by as much as visiting Josephine's castle and recruiting her. Or just plain using Ryoma or Xander because they're ungodly broken units with infinite use 1-2 range swords that are just as strong as Silvers but without any downsides whatsoever.)

F-Zero was very much a hardcore series and has been missing for over two decades now.

Hackurai has gone out of his way to make SSB as anti-competitive as possible since Brawl.

.....I'm going to need to see a lot more than Super Mario Odyssey and a Metroid Prime 4 logo before I believe Nintendo's aiming at the hardcore crowd again. They have a lot of s*** to make up for.

Nintendo are the same as ever. For good and bad.

Ignorance at its finest.

Iwata changed Nintendo in a very dramatic way and it was entirely godawful. Mario in particular was whored out to no end and his main series games released between Galaxy and Odyssey very half-assed and lacking in soul.

Iwata is why Nintendo is in the piss poor state it is in now.
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Butt_Squid 9 hours ago#33
Trumpanzee posted...
Rodrigo996 posted...
I'm not an elitist, but i do enjoy a hardcore experience

NNCCAt4

kek
Nintendo was never hardcore. But many of their games do offer excellent value for hardcore gamers. That's how you do good game design. Design games in such a way that casuals will have a good time playing through, but also so that hardcore gamers can get as much out of them as they want. Not that there's anything wrong with games designed specifically for casual or hardcore gamers.
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(edited 9 hours ago)reportquote
Aldo1981 9 hours ago#35
Butt_Squid posted...
Trumpanzee posted...
Rodrigo996 posted...
I'm not an elitist, but i do enjoy a hardcore experience

NNCCAt4

kek



Good thing Nintendo has a mixture of both.
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.
juzzieb 8 hours ago#36
Mario Kart 8 deluxe dumbing down mechanics from the wii u version. 1 2 switch and arms are typical wii casual games. BOTW was ubisoftified.

Seriously if you are a hardcore gamer and the only platform you own is a switch you must be having a dreadful time.
Ryzeki 8 hours ago#37
Nintendo was never "hardcore". They make games for everyone, not a small specific crowd. They target from kids to adults in their games, and it shows. They offer general quality software across the board.

Most of the "hardcore" titles end up coming from third parties. I can tell you Wii U had a great library of games, including several "hardcore" titles. Nintendo never really left, is just that the Wii lend itself to party games, new experiences, and cheap projects, which third parties abused, and thus its ratio of shovelware to hardcore was tremendously skewed to shovelware.

The switch, in my eyes, is not any different than Wii U when it comes with the support in general for hardcore and indies. If anything, i has more support, but since it is too new, it still lacks the software.

Any person that calls themselves a huge nintendo fan and ended up ignoring the wii u, looses their argument in my eyes. I am a huge critic of several nintendo decisions and software, but I don't ignore their efforts either. The Wii U is probably their best console since snes. I already enjoyed more games here than on GC. The fact that it is also VC with Wii itself makes it a great system in general.

But obviously, all nintendo systems since Wii, lack the "AAA" support from third party devs. And I do see the switch missing on many of them too. But that won't stop the switch from getting its own wealth of great titles.
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Starwars4J 8 hours ago#38
Companies can not be casual or hard core, those terms originated to describe how much time a person dedicated to playing specific games
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Trumpanzee 8 hours ago#39
juzzieb posted...
Mario Kart 8 deluxe dumbing down mechanics from the wii u version

What was dumbed down?
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Placiibo 8 hours ago#40
They're back to being a company for everyone. It started with Splatoon. The best games appeal to all people, including children and super hardcore, men and women. Most developers just target 1 demographic. But zelda, splatoon, the new Mario, Mario Kart, and arguably ARMS and Mario + Rabbids are appealing to all demographics. Wii was definitely aimed at casuals, and it was a hit. But the core hated motion controls. with switch, casuals have the option of motion, but also traditional controls for the core. Then theres the theme, the colors, etc that make the games appealing to a wide audience. 

I have real concerns about their 2018 lineup, but 2017 is the greatest year ever for NIntendo game output. Look for a lot of filler next year, like Kirby and Yoshi type games. You know, cute $20 indie titles that Nintendo will charge $60 for and point at as their "big games" that year. I'll be shocked if Metroid Prime 4 makes 2018, and if it does, look for a very unambitious title. Smash is probably 2019, but it will reuse a lot from Smash 4. Mario Maker will come in at some point, probably 2018. Virtual Console next year too. Hopefully more DLC for Splatoon, Zelda, and Mario.
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Mozzezz 7 hours ago#41
Trumpanzee posted...
juzzieb posted...
Mario Kart 8 deluxe dumbing down mechanics from the wii u version

What was dumbed down?


Well, they took out fire hopping, but added in a third boost tier for drifting (basically if you drift extra long you now get pink sparks which is a long boost), and they added in management of a second item. Battle mode in Deluxe was also majorly enhanced.

Still though, though I never mastered it, taking out fire hopping is probably an overall dumbing down of the game despite the added features.
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Mozzezz 7 hours ago#42
The_DOAM posted...
Nintendo never stopped being hardcore


I agree with this mostly, you just had to know where to look with modern Nintendo.

Granted they were more hardcore pre N64, but they still never really lost their hardcore status.
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Trumpanzee 7 hours ago#43
Mozzezz posted...
taking out fire hopping is probably an overall dumbing down of the game

Fire hopping was an unintentional technique that became obnoxiously annoying. Most people are glad it was removed and don't consider the removal "dumbing down" the game.
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MarioBro88 7 hours ago#44
Ryzeki posted...
Nintendo was never "hardcore". They make games for everyone, not a small specific crowd.

Thank you.

This was always the case. Ever since the rise of this "casual is bad! Hardcore 4 lyfe!" stigma, it has poisoned and manipulated the mindsets of gamers into seeing things that weren't there.

The "hardcore" glory days of NES? With games like Super Mario Bros, Balloon Fight and Duck Hunt, they were never there.

The "hardcore" glory days of SNES? With games like Super Mario World, Mario Paint and Super Mario Kart, they were never there.

The "hardcore" glory days of N64? with games like Hey You Pikachu, Kirby and the Crystal Shards and Pokémon Snap, they were never there.

And if those are considered the glory days, why does the Wii get the shaft then? Last time I checked, Nintendo released a lot of quality titles in the same vein, such as the Galaxy games, Prime 3, Punch Out and more.

Is it because of the negativity surrounding motion controls? Which doesn't make sense, since the Wii's best games doesn't use a great majority of waggle.

Is it because the "lack" of power compared to the competition? Which doesn't make sense, since previous consoles were also not the most powerful at the time.


I think this line of thinking simply stems from the undoubted fact that "hardcore" gamers are,

wait for it,

actually not the only audience in this industry that makes money. This mindset has brought unwarranted frustration and anger because "most" games are "dumbed-down", which is actually not true. The Wii (and Wii U) had just a much quality games as past machines.

Gamers only see the games in front of them, and are too lazy to actually look behind them to find the titles that they might enjoy.
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Mozzezz 6 hours ago#45
Trumpanzee posted...
Mozzezz posted...
taking out fire hopping is probably an overall dumbing down of the game

Fire hopping was an unintentional technique that became obnoxiously annoying. Most people are glad it was removed and don't consider the removal "dumbing down" the game.


Some times the pure argument of most people works, some times it doesn't, cause I will argue serious players, or experts (possible tournament players if they run those for Mario Kart), which can be just as important, some times more important, would see it as a dumbing down.

I still like Deluxe, and I like that they sort of tried to compensate for it by putting in some unique challenging techniques of their own, but I would have preferred they left in fire hopping. I know I won't get nearly as much mileage out of the game since they didn't leave that in, since there would be even another level to master.
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Mozzezz 6 hours ago#46
MarioBro88 posted...
Ryzeki posted...
Nintendo was never "hardcore". They make games for everyone, not a small specific crowd.

Thank you.

This was always the case. Ever since the rise of this "casual is bad! Hardcore 4 lyfe!" stigma, it has poisoned and manipulated the mindsets of gamers into seeing things that weren't there.

The "hardcore" glory days of NES? With games like Super Mario Bros, Balloon Fight and Duck Hunt, they were never there.

The "hardcore" glory days of SNES? With games like Super Mario World, Mario Paint and Super Mario Kart, they were never there.

The "hardcore" glory days of N64? with games like Hey You Pikachu, Kirby and the Crystal Shards and Pokémon Snap, they were never there.

And if those are considered the glory days, why does the Wii get the shaft then? Last time I checked, Nintendo released a lot of quality titles in the same vein, such as the Galaxy games, Prime 3, Punch Out and more.

Is it because of the negativity surrounding motion controls? Which doesn't make sense, since the Wii's best games doesn't use a great majority of waggle.

Is it because the "lack" of power compared to the competition? Which doesn't make sense, since previous consoles were also not the most powerful at the time.


I think this line of thinking simply stems from the undoubted fact that "hardcore" gamers are,

wait for it,

actually not the only audience in this industry that makes money. This mindset has brought unwarranted frustration and anger because "most" games are "dumbed-down", which is actually not true. The Wii (and Wii U) had just a much quality games as past machines.

Gamers only see the games in front of them, and are too lazy to actually look behind them to find the titles that they might enjoy.


I disagree with almost all of this.

In general the NES and SNES were far more hardcore then the Nintendo systems after it.

Still though that doesn't mean that the systems after it were bad.

SNES then Wii are my top two favorite systems by Nintendo.
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Ryzeki 5 hours ago#47
Mozzezz posted...
MarioBro88 posted...
Ryzeki posted...
Nintendo was never "hardcore". They make games for everyone, not a small specific crowd.

Thank you.

This was always the case. Ever since the rise of this "casual is bad! Hardcore 4 lyfe!" stigma, it has poisoned and manipulated the mindsets of gamers into seeing things that weren't there.

The "hardcore" glory days of NES? With games like Super Mario Bros, Balloon Fight and Duck Hunt, they were never there.

The "hardcore" glory days of SNES? With games like Super Mario World, Mario Paint and Super Mario Kart, they were never there.

The "hardcore" glory days of N64? with games like Hey You Pikachu, Kirby and the Crystal Shards and Pokémon Snap, they were never there.

And if those are considered the glory days, why does the Wii get the shaft then? Last time I checked, Nintendo released a lot of quality titles in the same vein, such as the Galaxy games, Prime 3, Punch Out and more.

Is it because of the negativity surrounding motion controls? Which doesn't make sense, since the Wii's best games doesn't use a great majority of waggle.

Is it because the "lack" of power compared to the competition? Which doesn't make sense, since previous consoles were also not the most powerful at the time.


I think this line of thinking simply stems from the undoubted fact that "hardcore" gamers are,

wait for it,

actually not the only audience in this industry that makes money. This mindset has brought unwarranted frustration and anger because "most" games are "dumbed-down", which is actually not true. The Wii (and Wii U) had just a much quality games as past machines.

Gamers only see the games in front of them, and are too lazy to actually look behind them to find the titles that they might enjoy.


I disagree with almost all of this.

In general the NES and SNES were far more hardcore then the Nintendo systems after it.

Still though that doesn't mean that the systems after it were bad.

SNES then Wii are my top two favorite systems by Nintendo.


And that was not because of nintendo, but third parties. Nintendo themselves have always developed their own set of games for everyone, and even their more "difficult" series are very approachable by both kids and adults.

People wrongfully atribute the label to nintendo itself as a company. Which is why they also act disappointef when a nintendo system suddenly lacks the games they want saying nintendo isnt hardcore, when it is specific third parties that are missing.

I cant think of a single overly difficult nintendo made game. No stupid "hardcore" game from them. I finished all my games from both NES and SNES and I was a kid back then. Clearly they were made for kids in mind too, not just adults/teens.

I could argue that some of their games would be more enjoyable, to me, had they gone with a more "hardcore" design. But in the end nintendo is a family company and their games try to cater to all possible audiences. That is their business.
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Zack_Attackv1 4 hours ago#48
Mozzezz 1 hour ago#49
Ryzeki posted...
And that was not because of nintendo, but third parties.



Ryzeki posted...
I finished all my games from both NES and SNES and I was a kid back then.


I disagree to an extent.

The following I was able to beat as a kid, but I still struggled with them (and it would have been worse without warps and whistles):

SMB 3
SMW
LoZ
LttP

And the following I could not beat completely as a kid and didn't finish until I was a teen or older (don't remember when):

LoZ II (possible Nintendo's hardest first party game)
SMB

And those are just off the top of my head, there's probably more that could be considered hardcore, such as the original Mario Bros or Donkey Kong, where the levels kept going on and on.
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