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July 5, 2017

L ets set the record straight - Super Mario Odyssey is not "open world"

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  3. Lets set the record straight - Super Mario Odyssey is not "open world"
MirageMew2 1 day ago#1
80/80
Since BotW caught the gaming world by a storm, it seems that most believe Nintendo is following a rising trend of a more open-world/open-ended gameplay formula. This has led to multiple discussions on Nintendo's approach to "open-world", especially with the gradual reveal of Super Mario Odyssey.

I'm here to argue that Super Mario Odyssey is not an open-world game in the slightest, and that these comparisons are mostly baseless, simply following the assumption that everything Nintendo post-BotW will break boundaries similarly.

Would you call SM64 or Sunshine open-world? 

Super Mario Odyssey is a 3D sandbox platformer, just like the past two titles 64 and Sunshine. Mario is controlled in a limited, seemingly open 3D environment with boundaries, only to be directed in a linear fashion to a specific end goal. Exploration is encouraged, but the name of the game is still getting Power Stars/Shine Sprites/Power Moons and moving on to the next limited, open environment with set boundaries.

"But open-world and sandbox are the same!"

Not necessarily. It's more akin to the statement, "All open-world games are sandbox games but not all sandbox games are open-world."

What's funny about this notion that Nintendo is suddenly focused on "open-world" games is that a lot of you guys seem to equate that with success or the guarantee of a triple A title being made. That really isn't the case. 

Granted, Odyssey is definitely going to be a hit, open-world or not, but some Nintendo fans gotta learn the difference in your gaming genres.
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(edited 1 day ago)stickyreportquote
Carnival 1 day ago#2
100% agree, most people are stupid. Open world =/= a bunch of big, spacious worlds separated by a hub or map system.
Your whole argument rides on SM64 and SMS being platformers. But they're not. You could go almost whole levels in those games without having to jump. Snow Mountain, the shipwrecked level, Bianca Hills... hardly any jumping in those. And besides boss battles, you hardly ever had to platform with the risk of death. That's a key part of platforming that those games are missing, just like SMO will.
DrRM 1 day ago#4
I haven't seen anyone say it is :|
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MirageMew2 1 day ago#5
PhyreEmblem23 posted...
Your whole argument rides on SM64 and SMS being platformers. But they're not. You could go almost whole levels in those games without having to jump. Snow Mountain, the shipwrecked level, Bianca Hills... hardly any jumping in those. And besides boss battles, you hardly ever had to platform with the risk of death. That's a key part of platforming that those games are missing, just like SMO will.


Hardly any jumping? In a Mario game? You're trying way too hard.

DrRM posted...
I haven't seen anyone say it is :|


https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/189706-nintendo-switch/75529224
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/189706-nintendo-switch/75510274
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/189706-nintendo-switch/75465032
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/189706-nintendo-switch/75409517
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/189706-nintendo-switch/75485338
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Blayshy 1 day ago#6
PhyreEmblem23 posted...
Your whole argument rides on SM64 and SMS being platformers. But they're not. You could go almost whole levels in those games without having to jump. Snow Mountain, the shipwrecked level, Bianca Hills... hardly any jumping in those. And besides boss battles, you hardly ever had to platform with the risk of death. That's a key part of platforming that those games are missing, just like SMO will.

Nuh-huh. Bulls***.
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Ki_cat_ 1 day ago#7
I agree that it's not really open world. The levels might be open ended but that doesn't make the world open like Zelda did.
People are afraid of what they don't understand.
Comyx 1 day ago#8
Did I just read that 64 and Sunshine aren't platformers? Ffs...
Coolideas 1 day ago#9
From Wikipedia

Open world,free roam, or sandboxare terms forvideo gameswhere a player can move freely through avirtual worldand is given considerable freedom in regard to how and when to approach particular objectives, as opposed to other video games that have a morelinear structureto their gameplay.While games had used open world designs prior since the 1980s, the implementation in Grand Theft Auto III set a standard that has been used in open-world design since that point.

So as you can see, regardless of your oppinion, fact remains game is open world.
MirageMew2 1 day ago#10
Coolideas posted...
From Wikipedia

Open world,free roam, or sandboxare terms forvideo gameswhere a player can move freely through avirtual worldand is given considerable freedom in regard to how and when to approach particular objectives, as opposed to other video games that have a morelinear structureto their gameplay.While games had used open world designs prior since the 1980s, the implementation in Grand Theft Auto III set a standard that has been used in open-world design since that point.

So as you can see, regardless of your oppinion, fact remains game is open world.


Citing Wikipedia as facts does not make anything you posted factual. If you believe everything you read on Wikipedia you missed out on some crucial lessons in grammar/high school.
Switch: 4741-1296-0325|3DS: 0490-5525-7337
"Boy, and I thought the characters in Arms were reaching." - SaviorGabriel
ROB45 1 day ago#11
It could be, for all we know.
___shan 1 day ago#12
It doesn't really matter does it? I'm not sure if a truly open world platformer would be that great.

Sometimes trying too hard to categoriseeverything feels unnecessary.
MirageMew2 1 day ago#13
___shan posted...
It doesn't really matter does it? I'm not sure if a truly open world platformer would be that great.

Sometimes trying too hard to categoriseeverything feels unnecessary.


See: The inFamous franchise. Completely open world superhero action platformer. Also Assassin's Creed, to an extent.
Switch: 4741-1296-0325|3DS: 0490-5525-7337
"Boy, and I thought the characters in Arms were reaching." - SaviorGabriel
#14
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Trippotato 1 day ago#15
@MirageMew2 posted...
80/80
Since BotW caught the gaming world by a storm, it seems that most believe Nintendo is following a rising trend of a more open-world/open-ended gameplay formula. This has led to multiple discussions on Nintendo's approach to "open-world", especially with the gradual reveal of Super Mario Odyssey.

I'm here to argue that Super Mario Odyssey is not an open-world game in the slightest, and that these comparisons are mostly baseless, simply following the assumption that everything Nintendo post-BotW will break boundaries similarly.

Would you call SM64 or Sunshine open-world? 

Super Mario Odyssey is a 3D sandbox platformer, just like the past two titles 64 and Sunshine. Mario is controlled in a limited, seemingly open 3D environment with boundaries, only to be directed in a linear fashion to a specific end goal. Exploration is encouraged, but the name of the game is still getting Power Stars/Shine Sprites/Power Moons and moving on to the next limited, open environment with set boundaries.

"But open-world and sandbox are the same!"

Not necessarily. It's more akin to the statement, "All open-world games are sandbox games but not all sandbox games are open-world."

What's funny about this notion that Nintendo is suddenly focused on "open-world" games is that a lot of you guys seem to equate that with success or the guarantee of a triple A title being made. That really isn't the case. 

Granted, Odyssey is definitely going to be a hit, open-world or not, but some Nintendo fans gotta learn the difference in your gaming genres.


You're right. Super Mario Odyssey is not open world. It's open air.
"Open world" is a fuzzy term that's poorly defined, so it gets thrown around in different contexts all the time, even by professional journalists (example: games like Dragon Age: Inquisition and Mass Effect: Andromeda get called "open world" by many sources, and feature a lot of open world elements...but they're divided into sub-maps).

Basically: call most anything that's not blatantly linear "open world," and someone will probably agree with you
skier8390 1 day ago#17
I agree SMO is not. 

My question though is do ALL sections of the map have to be accessible from the start in order for it to be considered a true open world game? I would personally disagree with this but some people say that all areas must be accessible.
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Username2016 21 hours ago#18
MirageMew2 posted...
Coolideas posted...
From Wikipedia

Open world,free roam, or sandboxare terms forvideo gameswhere a player can move freely through avirtual worldand is given considerable freedom in regard to how and when to approach particular objectives, as opposed to other video games that have a morelinear structureto their gameplay.While games had used open world designs prior since the 1980s, the implementation in Grand Theft Auto III set a standard that has been used in open-world design since that point.

So as you can see, regardless of your oppinion, fact remains game is open world.


Citing Wikipedia as facts does not make anything you posted factual. If you believe everything you read on Wikipedia you missed out on some crucial lessons in grammar/high school.


Yeah, because it's not like Wikipedia has bots, gives out bans and has to review your edits so people couldn't deliberately troll on the site.
Open world simply means giving the player a lot of freedom and choice (or the illusion of freedom and choice) in how they play a game.

Typically there are several game design elements that go hand-in-hand with this concept like open ended gameplay, player choices having meaningful impact or persistency, and a large seamless or semi-seamless (especially in regards to indoor areas) game world that for the most part can be explored with no limitations.

Odyssey is not open world at all and it's bizarre people would label it as such. You can argue that it has some level of open ended gameplay but that alone isn't enough to make something open world.

As for open air, that's a made up term by Nintendo because they didn't want to say open world. Kinda like how they said Zero Mission was a "retelling" instead of a remake because, I dunno, they want to be stubbornly unique.
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(edited 20 hours ago)reportquote
Shah138 20 hours ago#20
TallWhiteNinja posted...
"Open world" is a fuzzy term that's poorly defined, so it gets thrown around in different contexts all the time, even by professional journalists (example: games like Dragon Age: Inquisition and Mass Effect: Andromeda get called "open world" by many sources, and feature a lot of open world elements...but they're divided into sub-maps).

Basically: call most anything that's not blatantly linear "open world," and someone will probably agree with you

Is that not what Witcher 3 is? It's split into the Skellige, White Orchard, Velen, Touissant, and Kaer Mohren open areas. I don't think I've seen anyone argue that that game isn't open world. I don't think these areas being split up for logical reasons stop them from being open world. You could take any game that qualifies as an open world game, add some more maps and it wouldn't qualify as an open world game if you go by the way you're thinking.
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The_shoemaker 20 hours ago#21
I do feel like with breath of the wild and Mario Odyssey Nintendo is going for a more open structure, that doesn't mean Odyssey is open world of course. Also doesn't mean all their franchises will be like that.
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Terotrous 20 hours ago#22
True, it's nonlinear, but it's not "open world" because there's not just one connected world, it's made up of individual levels that you warp between.
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BruceCM 20 hours ago#23
Well, I've never been into Mario games before... Would try their rpgs if I get the chance but I don't tend to like most platformers. SMO, however, looks great to me & I'm planning to get it as soon as it comes out! :D
TallWhiteNinja 19 hours ago#24
Shah138 posted...
TallWhiteNinja posted...
"Open world" is a fuzzy term that's poorly defined, so it gets thrown around in different contexts all the time, even by professional journalists (example: games like Dragon Age: Inquisition and Mass Effect: Andromeda get called "open world" by many sources, and feature a lot of open world elements...but they're divided into sub-maps).

Basically: call most anything that's not blatantly linear "open world," and someone will probably agree with you

Is that not what Witcher 3 is? It's split into the Skellige, White Orchard, Velen, Touissant, and Kaer Mohren open areas. I don't think I've seen anyone argue that that game isn't open world. I don't think these areas being split up for logical reasons stop them from being open world. You could take any game that qualifies as an open world game, add some more maps and it wouldn't qualify as an open world game if you go by the way you're thinking.

My point wasn't to say those AREN'T open world, more that the definition of "open world" is loose at best. By the strict "one seamless map, available all at once" definition, those game's aren't open world...but not everyone holds to that definition (and the above games certainly play more-or-less like their seamless counterparts).
Vidgmchtr 19 hours ago#25
MirageMew2 posted...
OP

Thing is, Nintendo never claimed Odyssey was open-world. Ever. The only thing they've said in regards to the genre was that it was "sandbox-style", in the same vein as Super Mario 64 and Sunshine.
MirageMew2 19 hours ago#26
Vidgmchtr posted...
MirageMew2 posted...
OP

Thing is, Nintendo never claimed Odyssey was open-world. Ever. The only thing they've said in regards to the genre was that it was "sandbox-style", in the same vein as Super Mario 64 and Sunshine.


My case in point.
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"Boy, and I thought the characters in Arms were reaching." - SaviorGabriel
(edited 19 hours ago)reportquote
Endgame 19 hours ago#27
Since BotW caught the gaming world by a storm

It didn't.

No one outside of Nintendo fanboys and a few angry Horizon fanboys mad over Nintendo's blatant review score buying gives a f*** about BotW. E3 2016 being all about BotW for Nintendo got them ignored.

And rightfully so. BotW turned out to be one of the worst games Nintendo ever made.
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DuranmanX4 19 hours ago#28
Endgame posted...
Since BotW caught the gaming world by a storm

It didn't.

No one outside of Nintendo fanboys and a few angry Horizon fanboys mad over Nintendo's blatant review score buying gives a f*** about BotW. E3 2016 being all about BotW for Nintendo got them ignored.

And rightfully so. BotW turned out to be one of the worst games Nintendo ever made.


Talk about alternative facts
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Sandbox and open world don't really seem to have a set definition. They're generally defined by the context in which they are used, but that's about it in terms of consistency. There's no definition that states that an open world game needs to have a single open world and most open world games actually do have different sections with their own boundaries. Meaning that if someone wants to use open world to describe Super Mario Odyssey or even Super Mario 64 and Sunshine, they are also correct.
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(edited 16 hours ago)reportquote
ReggieCeo 15 hours ago#30
Mario won't work with open world anyway
Luigi could be in Super Mario Odyssey --> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j6fkHQb5l2w
PS4Warrior 15 hours ago#31
It's not open world. It's a Garden in a Box game.
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Miggi3Fr3sh 15 hours ago#32
Hey guys! I'm an open world! Come inside and enjoy your time!
PhyreEmblem23 posted...
Your whole argument rides on SM64 and SMS being platformers. But they're not. You could go almost whole levels in those games without having to jump. Snow Mountain, the shipwrecked level, Bianca Hills... hardly any jumping in those. And besides boss battles, you hardly ever had to platform with the risk of death. That's a key part of platforming that those games are missing, just like SMO will.


Doom and Quake are not FPS games because there are segments where you run with a keycard to a door, or look around to find secrets.
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LuigiFan835 14 hours ago#34
PhyreEmblem23 posted...
Your whole argument rides on SM64 and SMS being platformers. But they're not. You could go almost whole levels in those games without having to jump. Snow Mountain, the shipwrecked level, Bianca Hills... hardly any jumping in those. And besides boss battles, you hardly ever had to platform with the risk of death. That's a key part of platforming that those games are missing, just like SMO will.

SM64 and SMS aren't platformers? LMAO
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Miggi3Fr3sh 14 hours ago#35
Karmic Dragon2003 posted...
PhyreEmblem23 posted...
Your whole argument rides on SM64 and SMS being platformers. But they're not. You could go almost whole levels in those games without having to jump. Snow Mountain, the shipwrecked level, Bianca Hills... hardly any jumping in those. And besides boss battles, you hardly ever had to platform with the risk of death. That's a key part of platforming that those games are missing, just like SMO will.


Doom and Quake are not FPS games because there are segments where you run with a keycard to a door, or look around to find secrets.

Pokemon is not an RPG because you can spend the whole game petting Gardevoir's who-ha.
skier8390 posted...
I agree SMO is not. 

My question though is do ALL sections of the map have to be accessible from the start in order for it to be considered a true open world game? I would personally disagree with this but some people say that all areas must be accessible.

Guess fallout 4 and skyrim aren't open world to those people then. There are plenty of areas in those that are locked until you do certain things. 

MirageMew2 posted...
Citing Wikipedia as facts does not make anything you posted factual. If you believe everything you read on Wikipedia you missed out on some crucial lessons in grammar/high school.


Yes, is much better to go off of some random guy on the internets thoughts on what it means that is created specifically to fit an argument. You see, this discussion is not actually "Is smo an open world game". Its "what is an open world game?"

Also, you bed to learn a com little trick about Wikipedia. They actually either cite everything or note which things need citation. So if someone quotes Wikipedia, you make yourself look ignorant when you go lol Wikipedia. You are essentially saying lol properly cited research paper. I would quote the sources for this, but their citations are hard to quote from a phone, so if you're curious look it up. But please, don't just say "lol Wikipedia, don't trust them, trust my definition. "
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(edited 13 hours ago)reportquote
Miggi3Fr3sh posted...
Hey guys! I'm an open world! Come inside and enjoy your time!

dats what ur mom said xdddd
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Shah138 4 hours ago#38
TheFallenPriest posted...
Guess fallout 4 and skyrim aren't open world to those people then. There are plenty of areas in those that are locked until you do certain things.

Having "ALL" areas accessible from the start as a requirement to be open world is far too strict and removes like 99% of the games from that category. I think it's perfectly fine to have certain parts locked away for story or questing reasons. After all in real life the world is open, I can go to Washington DC if I really wanted to right now but that doesn't mean I could go into the White House.
Spectre of Dark Aether
Trippotato 4 hours ago#39
@PS4Warrior posted...
It's not open world. It's a Garden in a Box game.


It's open air
MightyBaconX 4 hours ago#40
Trippotato posted...
@PS4Warrior posted...
It's not open world. It's a Garden in a Box game.


It's open air


I hope to god this doesn't catch on because it sounds really stupid...

f*** were they thinking, "open air"...
PS4Warrior 4 hours ago#41
Trippotato posted...
PS4Warrior posted...
It's not open world. It's a Garden in a Box game.


It's open air

But that's Zelda :(.
PS4 - Because it was the next gen console i was the most interested in.
Warrior - Because i usually pick the Warrior class in MMORPGs when i played them.
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