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August 3, 2017

Get Out: Bitcoin

I have one word of advice for you /biz/, you are free to listen to me or not. My advice is: Get out while you can.

I've been in Bitcoin since 2009, and I still chat daily with a lot of people from the early days, big holders and miners. If you are not careful this will be the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of Bitcoin. These people don't like Blockstream's takeover, and they will fight for what they consider to be the real Bitcoin, aka BItcoin cash.

The segwit team doesn't have money. Big blockers are the people with a lot of holdings. Roger Ver, Craig Wright, Jihan Wu, Gavin Andresen, and lots of early miners. These people combined have billions worth of Bitcoin. They are angry, and they are ready to put their money where their mouth is.

Want proof? Look at this:
https://vote.bitcoin.com/

People vote with their money here, and you can see that the big money is pro big blocks, and against blockstream and segwit.

Another quote from a chinese miner:
“We have prepared $100 million USD to kill the small fork of CoreCoin, no matter what POW algorithm, sha256 or scrypt or X11 or any other GPU algorithm. Show me your money. We very much welcome a CoreCoin change to POS.”
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-market-needs-big-blocks-says-founder-btc-top-mining-pool/

(cont'd)
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I don't use Bitcoin. It's been replaced.
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>>2942789 (OP)
post walet so we ca be sure.
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this LARP is fucking pathetic

fuck off you cringy autist
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>>2942794

Just FYI, it's not funny. It's pathetic. Go post that whore kike too, make us laff with dem good maymays. Faggot.
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>>2942807
>t. salt nupol nobanc fag
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The ""secret miner"" who has been mining the BCC chain at a loss has been estimated to have spent around 10 millions on hardware and 100k a day mining at a loss. These people don't fuck around.

Now, this is what's gonna happen:
the wales cannot dump all their Bitcoins at once, they need to do it slowly. While everyone dumps their bcc to buy more btc, the whales will be accumulating bcc and selling btc. Despite all the people dumping, the long term trend will be up for bcc and down for btc, because the whales simply have more money.
At a certain point we will witness the flippening, thanks to the faster difficulty adjustment and high market price, it will become more profitable to mine bcc than btc. This is when the miners will hop en-masse and abandon btc. Since btc has no fast diff adjustment, the chain will be starved. Blocks could take hours to be found, fees will go up, and a difficulty adjustment will take several months at a slow speed. This is the point of no return. While bcc price keeps rising, btc will keep falling to the ground. People will start calling bcc the real bitcoin.

You are sitting at a table of high stakes poker. These people are angry, they have a lot of money, and they have a plan. They will crash blockstream and segwit into the ground. In the meantime, bcc will go to the moon. There's always two sides to a trade.. and it's usually not a good idea to be on the side where all the idiots are...

I don't care if you will listen to me or not. Stupid people deserve to lose their money, but don't say I didn't warn you.
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greed will be the downfall of money
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i love an angry person at a poker table
easy money
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>Zhuoer, who speaks in broken English

kek, just a chinese pajeet

Also those "news" are from 6 FUCKING MONTHS AGO
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> There are many Chinese big miners in our pool, they will buy more miners in 2017. Many come from traditional industries. You cannot imagine how much money they have, buying miners 10 million at a time.

Good lord....for fuck sake, Sam was right, fuckin Chine-A.I.
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>>2942818
nice pasta brah
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>>2942807

Just keep believing the miracle stories of blockstream buddy
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rogers pole says what roger wants it see say LOL
rent a clue
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threads like these are pathetic

BTC will be $10k next year

garbage FUD
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>>2942874
Wel start the dumpening then i'm sitting here for 2 days refreshing the charts waiting for the promised cheap Bitcoin Cash and it never arrived.
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>>2942840
the angry people here are blockstream and their fans, screaming around, and angrily dumping the bcc "shitcoin". In the meantime Jihan and friends keep their poker face.. pretending to support segwit2x.. but it's known where they really stand. They are not stupid.
Core has revealed all their cards and act like whiny kids. They already go around forums loudly saying they won't respect the 2x part of the agreement, do you really think the other side is this dumb? They are already putting their money where their mouth is. This is war.
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there is one more factor. a group that doesnt want big blocks NOR segwit. and they have huge holdings too.
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>>2942884
show me your wallet
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>>2942818
look, even if all of this is true; and I don't care mind you; I just won't sell my BCC

but let's say it is all true, the risk these people are taking is fucking enormous

not because of the little bitchfight within the community but because NOONE NEEDS BITCOIN WHEN YOU HAVE A PHALANX OF CAPABLE ALTCOINS THAT COULD TAKE OVER

eth is just the tip of the iceberg
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>>2942884
yawn
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why hold either
everybody having their own fork if the future of bitcoin now
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>>2942908

So you are 100% sure Core will win and Jihad Wu stupid wirr roose?

Oh really?
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>>2942918
I am, yes. If you were such a fucking newfag, you'd know it too.
>I've been here forever fuck you
You're too autistic to understand the value of BTC. It has nothing to do with the tech itself.
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>>2942794
Patrician.
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>>2942918
I don't care who wins. Im holding alts
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ive already forked bitcoin cash. its so non liquid its great
1 of my fork bcash coins is worth ALL of crypto
but good luck finding any markets for it
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>>2942918
Core has ideas and connections wit the bankers Bitmain has the production and infrastructure.
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BTC has no practical use and it doesn't need to be fast or "better". the most shitcoins are better than BTC. it is a gold-standard, nothing more than a kind of measuring stick.
replace BTC with BCC, yeah, cool, but why?
free your mind and stop giving a shit on BTC/BCC, dramaqueen. there is a lot of stuff going on in crypto, new techniques has and will be developed, despite of the problems and divorce war of their parents, which leads to fucking nothing and fucks up the whole market.
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>>2942923

What the fuck is your problem, stop being so pissed LOL

OK so we've established that Jihad Woo Woo is dumb, so you think all this BCC was

> his scam, kinda like ICO with Puterin's trashscamcoin
> act of colossal, life-changing stupidity, he got a bit rich and then he got dumb hence BCC

Which one is it?
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BCC is doing pretty well so far but I wondor if that will last price is at 0.3 on yobit
https://yobit.io/en/trade/BCC/BTC/?bonus=dmppl
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>>2942930
A smart man would start a new coin called bcash. Free promotion from r/bitcoin.
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>>2942964
That's not the real price. The only real price is at HitBTC = 0.01, or less

Stop dreaming.
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>>2942985
Have you been over there? I would love to buy it from you for that price! https://hitbtc.com/exchange/BCC-to-BTC
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>>2942889
Who is other group please.
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>>2942883
1) Bitcoin is going to moon regardless of Bitcoin Cash's performance

2) Bitcoin Cash is dead on arrival. In fact its so dead that the block chain isnt working properly and as of right now, will take days to weeks for coin transfers to take place.
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>>2942998
I don't sell horseshit, and that's not how it works
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until there is liquidity any BCH numbers you see trading are pointless
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>>2943051
Why will transfers take weeks?
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What you guys fail to understand is that, at least by the old holders, core is seen as the fork. Segwit radically changes the way the protocol works, so it's effectively an alt, different from what is described in the bitcoin whitepaper. Soft fork and Hard fork are just semantics, i you want you can change a lot with a soft fork and very little with a hard fork, only difference is adding new rules vs removing rules.
So, at least from the point of view of old bitcoiners, segwit-coin is seen as the fork, whereas bcc is the continuation of bitcoin, it only lifts the temporary 1MB cap that was introduced to avoid spam when btc was worthless.


>>2943051
>1) Bitcoin is going to moon regardless of Bitcoin Cash's performance
You really think that value will come out of thin air? Cute

>2) Bitcoin Cash is dead on arrival. In fact its so dead that the block chain isnt working properly and as of right now, will take days to weeks for coin transfers to take place.
You are badly misinformed by Core propaganda. The bitcoin cash blockchain is currently getting blocks pretty fast. Last one was 5 minutes ago, previous one 10 minutes ago.
The mining had been stopped on purpose to make the difficulty go down. It's a highly tactical operation. Mining was stopped precisely for 12 hours so that the difficulty adjustment would kick in.
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>>2942794
/thread
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>>2943109
How much is Roger paying you to astorutf, pajeet?

Your delusioanl blockstream conspiracies and your cult-like muh satoshi vision can go fuck themselves.
You have your shitcoin Bitcoin Cash now, keep your bag for yourself and stop annoying us wiht your disgusting propaganda
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>>2942789 (OP)
Hahaha, bullshit and you know it
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>get out 
>literally about to take a huge portion of stock money away and pump it into BTC

Hmmmm
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>>2943109
>What you guys fail to understand is that, at least by the old holders, core is seen as the fork
wrong. Jihan's minions are very few, and 99% of them are literally paid to agree with him
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>>2943109

How do u explain bcc's pump to .48 and what price do you realistically see bcc at?
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>>2942789 (OP)
>unironically supporting the chinese jews who wanna make even more money

Hmmm.... really makes you think
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>>2943109
Good work Anon, hopfully some people will get the point and secure their life savings.
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>>2943128
it is sad to see how much blockstream has galvanized people against the real early adopters who have poured their heart and soul into Bitcoin.
You do realize that most people at blockstream arrived after them, and basically took over? People like Gavin, who was the designated successor by satoshi, have been ousted, by people like maxwell and luke who, by their own admission, didn't believe in bitcoin, didn't understand the economics of it and didn't have any holdings.

As i said, this is a war and there are two sides, I will stick with the early adopters and people who have hundreds of millions invested in hardware.
But you are free to stick to the other side, with their silly hats, and bitcoin nodes running on raspberry pi's.. Time will tell if the market values more the original bitcoin, or bitcoin-core, the crippled, high-fee, settlement layer for the lightning network(tm).

(also please keep dumpin, I need to get more cheap bcc before btc crashes)
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Who cares. Every bitcoin holder owns just as many BCC.
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>>2943109
Fuck... How long do we have to live with all these insecurities.

I just want to relax and be calm and comfy instead of constantly thinking about each possible scenario and how it would affect me and wondering if i made the right decision or should i change my strategy
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>>2943163
If they are smart!
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>>2943109
>What you guys fail to understand is that, at least by the old holders, core is seen as the fork.
Uhhh, no. How much are you being paid to spout this garbage? Bitcoin is Bitcoin. Satoshi is long gone. You sound like a cult member. It's been almost 10 years since Satoshi developed Bitcoin. It's time to move on. There is only a small minority of people who agree with this sentiment. Most are probably paid to agree.

NO ONE ELSE WANTED THIS. This is all a power play by desperate people. It's obvious that its political in nature and nothing more. It's all about egos.

> bcc is the continuation of bitcoin,
No, it's a fork. And a badly done one at that.

>You really think that value will come out of thin air? Cute
Faggot, BTC is already on the trajectory for mass adoption. You can't stop the train. This is why BCC shitcoin was created, its about control, they know BTC is going to be big in a few years and this is the last gasp for power.

>Core propaganda. 
Projection

>Mining was stopped precisely for 12 hours so that the difficulty adjustment would kick in.
As of right now the blockchain is still slow. This is due to the fact that the whole BCC launch was a botched, rushed launch.

How much is Jihan paying you. No one wants your chink scamcoin.
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100 million fed buxx left the BCC in past 8 hours.

Should it make me think?
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>>2943190
>Mass adoption
>Small blocks

Just lol
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>>2943161
>People like Gavin, who was the designated
>designated :D
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>>2943163
Not me...
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>>2943161
>People like Gavin, who was the designated successor by satoshi,

What? Gavin was supposed to replace the Minister? What the...
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>>2943202
>Doesn't realize mass adoption =/= quick transfer times
>just lol
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>>2943143
>How do u explain bcc's pump to .48
As i said there's lots of whales who are trying to stack up, so some jumpslike that are expected. I know early adopters personally who have money in the hundreds of millions of dollars and are trying to snatch up as much bcc as they can while it's low.

>and what price do you realistically see bcc at?
I don't have a crystal ball, but short term, i imagine idiots will dump it while the whales keep amassing everything they can at sub 0.10. But these days of cheap bcc won't last long.
In the medium term, I expect bcc to easily reach parity with segwit-coin (as btc will be losing value at the same time). By the end of this year I'm pretty sure bcc will be more valuable than btc, could happen even earlier. More or less the prices you see now but flipped.
If things go as i imagine, it will be the biggest wealth redistribution in the history of Bitcoin, from clueless noobs, to the old money and whales.
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>>2943161
>(also please keep dumpin, I need to get more cheap bcc before btc crashes)

If you really would want to get cheap bcc you would had fud it instead of shilling
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>>2943239
false and wrong
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>>2942789 (OP)
why are you suggesting to sell then?
most BTC holders also holds BCC
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>>2943239
Wow, talk about lies. Most whales are pro Core. BCC is already dead, by the end of the year it will probably stagnate at a market cap similar to ETC's.
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>>2943190
processing transactions off blockchain defeats the entire purpose of BTC and opens up avenues for hook noses to fuck it all up for everyone
both sides are crooked but Core cocksuckers are total cucks
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Pretty sure OP site is a scam. Don't send this cuck BTC for a "vote."

1) Make articles on hot crypto debate
2) Add BTC value to them
3) "LOOK HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE VOTING BUT YOU HAVE NO SAY!"

Then plebs and cucks send him BTC. He increases the mean nothing vote counters. One day, poof, the site is gone...Mad BTC gains for OP.
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>>2943278
Those avenues exist regardless of its off blockchain or not
Your argument is irrelevant
Cash supporters are total fucking cucks because most of them are greedy little fucks that dream of a flippening that will never happen
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>>2943190
I pity you. A fool and his money are soon parted...

>No, it's a fork. And a badly done one at that. 
Both bitcoin cash and bitcoin core are forks, it's entirely specular. One implements segwit, one lifts the block size limit. The market will choose which one is the "real" bitcoin, and which one is the altcoin.

>Faggot, BTC is already on the trajectory for mass adoption. You can't stop the train.
Huh, nah. If you look at the charts, we were on that exponential trajectory, until we hit the 1MB blocksize limit, that's when everything started falling apart. Keeping that limit will only keep crippling bitcoin and stopping adoption. Who wants a coin with high fees and slow confirmations?

>>Core propaganda. 
>Projection
It's a fact, the blatant banning and moderation they have been doing on reddit and bitcointalk, their efforts to discredit adversaries with silly names. People aren't stupid they are waking up to that corporate-sponsored propaganda. Especially the early adopters are not the kind of people who like authority.
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>>2943311

Btc is used for all altcoin transactions, how will this convert over for bcc? Wont people have to rebuy everything?

This would be a huge inconvenience and one of the things preventing bcc from taking over. And wat about the exchanges that didnt support the fork? Coinbase? So many things would need to change....
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>>2943342

and corporations that issue BTC-Mastercards, that accept BTC as a method of payment, that offer other services related to BTC woul all have to go thru a massive amount of changes
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>>2943311
>If you look at the charts, we were on that exponential trajectory, until we hit the 1MB blocksize limit, that's when everything started falling apart. 
SO MB size limits somehow controls the influx of people? This logic, man. This logic.

The adoption of Bitcoin is not tied to MB size. Sorry. It's a bit more complicated than that. Bitcoin has already been compared to digital gold. It already has massive branding presence. The holding of Bitcoin's price during BCC's release is a statement enough - King Bitcoin shrugs and moves on.

Once Segwit is implemented, Bcash is a non factor. It's a coin created purely for political reasons and control. Period.

>It's a fact, the blatant banning and moderation they have been doing on reddit and bitcointalk, their efforts to discredit adversaries with silly names.
You think that there hasnt been banning on r/btc either? Reddit is notorious for banning and censorship - this is a non-issue. The same thing for Bitcointalk - its notorious for censorship. I can claim that I've been censored on there, for things unrelated to the Bitcoin debate.

>People aren't stupid they are waking up to that corporate-sponsored propaganda. 
Your projection is so painfully obvious. I knew the propaganda would start on biz, I was actually expecting these threads to start earlier.

Once Segwit is implemented, then its off to the races for Bitcoin. Until then, BCC is especially the last, dying gasp for dissenters. Hey, you need to have a voice, unfortunately I dont think there is room for Bcash on the market, because LTC is already poised to become the transactional-based currency.

I think it really shows how disconnected this part of the community is, when they think that the size of BTC transactions is somehow tied to its price performance. It's not. Totally delusional.
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>>2943245
>If you really would want to get cheap bcc you would had fud it instead of shilling

I have already converted my btc holdings to bcc. And I'm currently shorting btc with 100k just for some extra gains ;)
Tbh I see the writing on the wall and I'm sure a lot of people are gonna get hurt in this, and I have many friends who hang around these forums, so, now that I already did the switch, I don't want innocent people to get badly hurt in this mess.
My early adopter btc friends have bigger holdings (in the tens or hundreds of millions), so they are moving it more slowly, but they all have the same intention of abandoning btc for bcc.

>>2943266
>Most whales are pro Core
Most whales? Like who?
I think you are badly misinformed my friend...
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SPLIT BCH NOW
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>>2943424
>I have already converted my btc holdings to bcc. And I'm currently shorting btc with 100k just for some extra gains ;)
Post proof.
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>>2943424
I've been involved in BTC since 2012. I'm close with many big holders. What you're doing is wrong. I understand we come to biz to bullshit and do fake pumps, but its another entirely to spread false information about whales, so called "big holders' about to dump btc, which holds the entire crypto space together.

All you need to do is hop on Whalepool. The intention is clear: BTC is still king, and will gain greater adoption once Segwit is implemented at the end of the month.

What you are doing here is wrong, you should be ashamed.
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all i want from bitcoin is a blockchain that i can't verify my own transactions on
now i my saviour is here
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>>2943424
>My early adopter btc friends have bigger holdings (in the tens or hundreds of millions),

Lol. If anyone on biz believes this nonsense you deserve to lose all your money.

I knew the dicks from r/btc will come in here ready to spread this bullshit.
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>>2943457
Whalepool annoyed about not initiating the dumping?

But seriously, why do so many people try to crash Bitcoin Cash? Nothing wrong with satoshi's vision right why woud you wat his plan to fail so badly unless you are a blockstream banker??
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>>2943490
>But seriously, why do so many people try to crash Bitcoin Cash? 
It's not that they are trying to crash it, its a simple rejection from the market.

"Satoshi's vision" is just a marketing statement, really. Look at the cryptospace right now. You want to talk vision? We already have his vision. Look at the whole host of altcoins available on the market.

Bitcoin leads where it matters, security, robust network, branding, reputation - that is what matters. BTC checks all of these off.

Its pretty clear that Bitcoin Cash is purely done for political reasons. Special interests want control of the project. Isnt it funny that it comes out now, right before Segwit is implemented? Its obvious that they want to kill Bitcoin's momentum and take over. But its essentially just another altcoin, in essence. Bitcoin...is bitcoin.

And it doesnt create anything new - its riding on Bitcoin's name. Thats what pisses alot of people off.
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>>2943490
no Tx malleability fix means that the coin will be centralized in China for all eternity

we are already at war with their nationalized electricity, no need to give them an additional edge because they don't want to fix an obvious bug in the code
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>>2943521
>Satoshi's vision" is just a marketing statement
> its riding on Bitcoin's name. 

Satoshi invented bitcoin, read the paper. The first thing he wrote in his paper is: A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution

Bitcoin Cash is bitcoin.

Calling segwit bitcoin is complete noncense, it is exactly the opposite of what satoshi wrote in his paper.
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>>2943561
>A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution
Name one of those promises that segwit breaks.
I'll wait
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>0.18
Alright guys, here comes the drop.
Get ready for the scooping.
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>>2943599
Not cash
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>>2943561
>Bitcoin Cash is bitcoin
>Logic

With your logic, half of the altcoins created is bitcoin.

Bitcoin Cash is a hastily made Bitcoin clone, basically an altcoin riding on the Bitcoin name. It's just another altcoin.

>Calling segwit bitcoin is complete noncense, it is exactly the opposite of what satoshi wrote in his paper.

Not at all. Do you know what Segwit does? It re-arranges transaction signatures.

I think its pretty clear that Bitcoin is still Satoshi's vision. Maybe not 100%, but times change. Sorry. Its been almost 10 years.
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>>2943342
>>2943366
these are valid concerns, but as you've seen exchanges and wallets have acted very quickly to implement bcc, it's not that hard really. Those who won't, are already facing potential lawsuits, and for the businesses who won't support it, there's many people already looking to copy the business and allow bcc.
If bcc will have a good market value, and good usability, everything else will follow.

>>2943482
i know it sounds ridiculous but it's true. We were just random people who got involved early that's all. This friend of mine spent 60k to resurrect an old hard drive where he had more than 50 millions in btc (now must be worth at least 100 mills), a couple others run big mining operations, invested a lot of money and got rewarded accordingly.

>>2943599
"We define an electronic coin as a chain of digital signatures. Each owner transfers the coin to the next by digitally signing a hash of the previous transaction and the public key of the next owner and adding these to the end of the coin".
Segwit is not bitcoin plain and simple. You can argue if its better or worse but it's not bitcoin. Heck most alts are closer to bitcoin than segwit.
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>>2943744
Rearranges would assume they're still on the blockchain, which they are not. And I'll ignore the whole ugliness of the result as a non-factor.
Legacy bitcoin, with segwit activated, is also more vulnerable to validationless mining. With all of you hating on Chinese miners, I'm sure you have a lot to be afraid of.
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>>2943744
You got history wrong. Time will tell who was on the right side of history.

Bitcoin hit an artificial scalability limit. A group of hostile developers thought that they could make more money by exploiting this limit and building solutions on top of it as separate layers. They forced people to accept this solution by setting a deadline, even if most of the community didn't agree. As they forced this drastic change into Bitcoin's code, a group of people who believe in the original bitcoin forked away to preserve the bitcoin chain from a drastic change that cannot be undone.
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>>2943744
Bitcoin cash is the original blockchain with all the history.

Most altcoins (including bitcoin settlement) claim to be something else. Like fuel, token, gold, dollars, shares, funds, etc.
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Bitcoin core is an open source team of volunteers which anyone with the right technical skill can join. Blockstream does not employ all or even most of the people on the bitcoin core team. Acting like blockstream somehow owns and controls bitcoin core is just nonsense FUD.

And no, I do not believe the OP has heard that whales plan to dump BTC for BCC. In fact, I believe it is quite the opposite.

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