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Showing posts with label ACLU. Show all posts
Showing posts with label ACLU. Show all posts

August 21, 2017

ACLU has reversed its policy on Defending Hate Group protests that carry Guns

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-rights-group-rethinks-defending-hate-groups-protesting-013747752.html

(Reuters) - The American Civil Liberties Union will no longer defend hate groups seeking to march with firearms, the Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday, a policy change that comes on the heels of protests by white nationalists and counter-protesters at the weekend in Virginia.

The newspaper quoted the ACLU's executive director as saying in an interview that, after violence during the Charlottesville protests, judges, police chiefs and legal groups would be required to "look at the facts of any white-supremacy protests with a much finer comb."

An ACLU spokeswoman confirmed the policy shift and said the concern over weapons was not something the group has had to contend with in the past. "We’ve had people with odious views, all manner of bigots. But not people who want to carry weapons and are intent on committing violence," ACLU spokeswoman Stacy Sullivan said in a telephone interview.

White nationalists staged a "Unite the Right" protest in Charlottesville last weekend over plans to remove a statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee from a park. A number of them carried weapons, according to witnesses and video.

"If a protest group insists, ‘No, we want to be able to carry loaded firearms,’ well, we don’t have to represent them. They can find someone else," the newspaper quoted Anthony Romero, the ACLU’s executive director since 2001, as saying.

The ACLU's Virginia branch defended the right of the white nationalists, neo-Nazis and others to rally in the city that is home to the University of Virginia. For decades, the ACLU has defended rallies by such groups on the grounds that they have constitutional rights to free speech.

f***ing Alt-Reich ruining it for everyone else.
You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard
{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite}
Spooking 3 days ago#2
One event caused them to change their stance? Awfully reactionary.
Prism Ranger (Red): Isn't it obvious? We don't have any friends!
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The Admiral 3 days ago#3
So the ACLU no longer supports constitutional rights and shouldn't be taken seriously on these issues. They can go f*** themselves if one incident is enough for them to reject the Bill of Rights.
- The Admiral
iPhone_7 3 days ago#4
Should basically leave it at inciting violence.

A mob of people with torches, assault rifles, clubs & shields, and screaming "Die you ****ing n****/Jews!" is inciting violence. They shouldn't be defending hate groups that do any combination of those things.
CruelBuffalo 3 days ago#5
iPhone_7 posted...
Should basically leave it at inciting violence.

A mob of people with torches, assault rifles, clubs & shields, and screaming "Die you ****ing n****/Jews!" is inciting violence. They shouldn't be defending hate groups that do any combination of those things.


Agreed.
Finally.
walk like thunder
Ruvan22 2 days ago#7
The Admiral posted...
So the ACLU no longer supports constitutional rights and shouldn't be taken seriously on these issues. They can go f*** themselves if one incident is enough for them to reject the Bill of Rights.


Does the first amendment include carrying arms in assembly/free speech clauses? I'm not very knowledgeable about SOTUS rulings on specific instances, but I wouldn't be surprised if those exceptions weren't allowed.
lilORANG 2 days ago#8
OctilIery 2 days ago#9
Ruvan22 posted...
The Admiral posted...
So the ACLU no longer supports constitutional rights and shouldn't be taken seriously on these issues. They can go f*** themselves if one incident is enough for them to reject the Bill of Rights.


Does the first amendment include carrying arms in assembly/free speech clauses? I'm not very knowledgeable about SOTUS rulings on specific instances, but I wouldn't be surprised if those exceptions weren't allowed.

No, the constitution doesn't guarantee the right to carry arms during protests. States can refuse people to carry weapons if they worry for safety.
Meh, if they're openly carrying weapons I feel like it goes beyond protest at that point.

If they have a license to carry a concealed weapon, then they should be able to carry a concealed weapon. You shouldn't be able to intimidate with weapons at what should be a civil protest.
D-Lo_BrownTown posted...
Meh, if they're openly carrying weapons I feel like it goes beyond protest at that point.

But now you're getting into the argument that the 2nd amendment is being violated. "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

If they're legally allowed to protest, and legally allowed to carry guns, then it's basically a case of, "this makes me uncomfortable, they shouldn't be allowed to do this."
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself --- and you are the easiest person to fool.
OctilIery 2 days ago#12
StucklnMyPants posted...
D-Lo_BrownTown posted...
Meh, if they're openly carrying weapons I feel like it goes beyond protest at that point.

But now you're getting into the argument that the 2nd amendment is being violated. "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

If they're legally allowed to protest, and legally allowed to carry guns, then it's basically a case of, "this makes me uncomfortable, they shouldn't be allowed to do this."

The state is allowed to say guns are not allowed in certain areas at certain times. They can't ban individuals from carrying, but they can say "no weapons allowed" for protests.
Bio1590 2 days ago#13
Like

It's one thing to carry a gun

It's an entirely another thing to show up to one of these things carrying a gun dressed like you think you're some f***ing paramilitary group.
Polycosm 2 days ago#14
This is kind of morally gray for me, but I think I side with the ACLU on this one. 1A and 2A must both be defended, but when you combine crowds, hate speech, and guns all in the same place at the same time... it's difficult for me to call that a peaceable assembly.
BKSheikah owned me so thoroughly in the 2017 guru contest, I'd swear he used the Lens of Truth to pick his bracket. (thengamer.com/guru)
_Near_ 2 days ago#15
Surprising that it took this long for them to realize that weapon-carrying hatemongers incite violence. Now we just need the courts to recognize this.
http://i.imgur.com/QoIYepz.gif
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.
OctilIery posted...
The state is allowed to say guns are not allowed in certain areas at certain times. They can't ban individuals from carrying, but they can say "no weapons allowed" for protests.

Absolutely. But as far as I can tell, NC allows open carry of firearms without a permit, and only prohibits people from carrying in public gatherings when you have to pay for admission.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself --- and you are the easiest person to fool.
fair;next
OctilIery 2 days ago#18
StucklnMyPants posted...
OctilIery posted...
The state is allowed to say guns are not allowed in certain areas at certain times. They can't ban individuals from carrying, but they can say "no weapons allowed" for protests.

Absolutely. But as far as I can tell, NC allows open carry of firearms without a permit, and only prohibits people from carrying in public gatherings when you have to pay for admission.

I don't know the specifics for different state laws. I was more thinking of another story I was seeing, Boston I think, where they specifically forbid weapons from being brought to the protest and counter protest.
Wait, maybe I misunderstood

Nobody is taking away their right to carry weapons, the ACLU is just not going to defend them if anything happens.

Am I not understanding something, here?
I actually disagree with this. I'm no gun nut either.
I love all things cute and kawaii!!!1
OctilIery posted...
I don't know the specifics for different state laws. I was more thinking of another story I was seeing, Boston I think, where they specifically forbid weapons from being brought to the protest and counter protest.


Yeah for the thing today BPD I believe said no weapons, shields, or similar things would be allowed by either.
The Admiral 23 hours ago#22
The Great Muta 22 posted...
OctilIery posted...
I don't know the specifics for different state laws. I was more thinking of another story I was seeing, Boston I think, where they specifically forbid weapons from being brought to the protest and counter protest.


Yeah for the thing today BPD I believe said no weapons, shields, or similar things would be allowed by either.


I think think is fine since they needed a city-approved permit to gather in the Commons, and they city is allowed to restrict those things in that scenario. No one's rights were being infringed since the group voluntarily agreed to that.
- The Admiral
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