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Showing posts with label Charlottesville. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Charlottesville. Show all posts

August 14, 2017

So apparently this is "What really happened in Charlottesville"

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KarmaMuffin 11 seconds ago#1
https://www.allenbwest.com/2017/08/13/ok-folks-heres-really-happened-charlottesville-everyone-missing/

This all began because someone decided, as other elected officials have across the country, to cave in to partisan political pressures and seek to erase American history. History is not there for us to love or hate, but for us to learn from and seek to not repeat its mistakes.

If there are those who truly believe we protect ourselves by trying to revise history due to false emotions, then we miss out on who we are as a nation, and our evolution. The statues of long since deceased leaders of the Confederate Army do not stand to remind anyone of oppression. And if a statue can oppress you, then I submit that you have greater issues.

I certainly did not appreciate former President Barack Obama taking a photo op in Cuba before the image of Che Guevara, nor do I enjoy seeing anyone wearing said image on t-shirts here in America…but I do not go into some whimsical state of “oppression.”
And so it is that we do possess in this Constitutional Republic a freedom of speech and freedom of expression. It would appear that said group who didn’t wish to see the statue of Virginian, General Robert E. Lee, who was a commissioned U.S. Army officer, graduate of West Point, and served the nation in the Mexican War, taken down did apply for a permit to hold a rally. We can dislike these individuals, but they took proper measures to secure permission to express their First Amendment right.

Contrary to their position, the word went out for a counter-protest to occur which included groups from a different side of the political spectrum, who have also been very guilty of hateful rhetoric and violence. What should have happened is that these two groups should have been kept miles apart. I do not understanding why any local law enforcement agency would allow these two groups close proximity…first lesson learned. And we must also ascertain, did the counter-protest group seek permit or did they just “show up” in order to provoke, and elicit a response they could use “politically?” Yes, motivations are important to understand in this case, if we’re serious about getting to the bottom of what happened in Charlottesville and not just the typical media-driven frenzy.

I find it rather odd that so many are seeking to lay blame on President Trump for what happened in Charlottesville. And there are some voices out there who want to blame all white people, and all Republicans. How odd that when it was the New Black Panther Party outside a voting precinct in Philadelphia in black fatigues and with clubs, nothing was said. As a matter of fact, they weren’t even prosecuted for voter intimidation. And when it was the riots in Ferguson and Baltimore fueled by media false narratives and a presidential administration’s rhetoric, there was no blame laid on Barack Obama. It appears to me that there is a blatant hypocrisy when an individual commits a horrible crime, such as in Charleston, South Carolina, and a collective group of people are to be held accountable.
But, when there’s an Islamic terror attack people say, “we cannot rush to judgment” or “this is not indicative of all Muslims”…to wit I agree, but why not call the enemy for what it is” militant Islamic terrorism or jihadism? Why must some be browbeaten into condemning the actions of a few, yet we have others who have fully admitted their support to groups calling for a “resistance?” And where were the voices to condemn the violence in Washington DC on Inauguration Day, or even at UC-Berkeley…or the violence committed against those who support the current president or hold beliefs aligned with Constitutional conservatism?
KarmaMuffin 7 seconds ago#2
If we want to condemn groups such as the neo-Nazis and others, then we must also condemn groups such as BLM and Antifa. And we need to stop the cherrypicking, as they all should be investigated. Let’s end this absurdity of trying to connect the Republican Party with the Ku Klux Klan, since it was a creation of the Democrat Party. And I seem to recall Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, infamously known as a grand wizard of the Klan, lauded over at his memorial by Barack Obama, Bill and Hillary Clinton. It was Senator Byrd who was vehemently against the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but it was Republican Senator Everett Dirksen who supported its passage.

James Alex Fields will be punished to the full extent of the law, and I truly believe he should never see the light of day again. But if we blindly do not realize there has been an atmosphere of hatred fomented in this nation, we are ignorant. Who even remembers the fella who attempted to gun down several Republican Members of Congress at a baseball practice, severely wounding Rep. Steve Scalise? The mainstream liberal progressive media pushed that aside rather quickly, and let us not forget MSNBC commentator, Joy Reid, who on her Sunday show actually sought to justify Rep. Scalise’s shooting because of his voting record. Now, where was the condemnation there, and why is it that Ms. Reid still has a position and a show on that network?
Fareed Zakaria praised the Central Park play depicting the “Caesar-like” stabbing to death of President Trump — last time I checked he was still on CNN. And how many Democrat elected officials were pressured into making statements of condemnation of one Kathy Griffith who notoriously held up the bloodied severed head resembling President Trump?

There’s plenty of guilt to be passed around here, but the progressive socialist left will sadly exploit this for all they can. They will horribly believe this will provide them some sort of electoral advantage. They fail to realize they’re just as complicit in what happened in Charlottesville. Let me ask that age-old rhetorical question: “if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there, does it make a sound?”

If we were to go back and ponder this incident and just let a small group of disaffected individuals hold a rally to protest the possible taking down of a statue of General Robert E. Lee, and no one had showed up…Instead a call went out and trouble, violence ensued. Or maybe, if we had courageous elected officials who would just say, those statues aren’t offending anyone; they’re part of American history, and they stay. Imagine that, would there even be a story, any rally, and violence?

What happened in Charlottesville must not be allowed to happen again. And that means we need to hold ANY group responsible that promotes violence. “What do we want, dead cops; when do we want them, now”…”Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon”…no more. Our streets aren’t the place for hoods and masks, such as Antifa wears, and their violence and destruction of property. Let’s call them all out, and not have this selective enforcement mentality rooted in partisan political hackery. If we don’t stop the blatant hypocrisy, which is truly the problem, then we’re sitting on a powder keg — which I believe some wish for.

I have an idea. If y’all want to fight, sign up in the U.S. military — if you meet the standards. There are plenty of folks who do indeed hate the United States. Channel your angst against them…not each other.
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  3. So apparently this is "What really happened in Charlottesville"

Why did the incident in Charlottesville gather so much media attention?

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  3. Why did the incident in Charlottesville gather so much media attention?
Iodine 1 day ago#1
I am in no way trying to downplay this, but none of the other Anti-fa and Alt-Right clashes gathered this much attention. Hell even high level Republicans such as Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio, and Paul Ryan have come out and condemned the Alt-Right which never happens.
In Belichick we Trust
because the alt right are literal nazis while anti fa just shares similar ideals
yankees ws chizzamps
Medz2017 1 day ago#3
because the media can say the nukes are coming so much until people stop listening
Hi
_Near_ 1 day ago#4
Because someone drove a car into 11 people

edit: sorry, 20 people
http://i.imgur.com/QoIYepz.gif
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.
(edited 1 day ago)reportquote
Because it's 2017 and we still have Nazi's trying to claim their beliefs are legitimate.
Posted with GameRaven 3.2.1
Vamp_Aubrey 1 day ago#6
Mal_Fet 1 day ago#7
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
Because domestic terrorism actually took place at this event, unlike the 'terrorists' who busted a window out of a Starbucks.
~A little nonsense, now and then, is relished by the wisest men ~
TWSSted since~ 3/27/12 https://i.imgur.com/zlaENmx.png
Schwarber 1 day ago#9
Trigg3rH4ppy posted...
Because domestic terrorism actually took place at this event, unlike the 'terrorists' who busted a window out of a Starbucks.


Too late. Look at the post above yours.
NadYobWoc 1 day ago#10
Probably because of the right wing terrorist attack white people.

No one cares when it's against muslims.
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
Trigg3rH4ppy posted...
Because domestic terrorism actually took place at this event, unlike the 'terrorists' who busted a window out of a Starbucks.

pumpkin spice lives matter
NadYobWoc 1 day ago#12
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.

Right wing terrorist attacks are the most common form of terror attack in the US
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
Frolex 1 day ago#13
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.


of course, media coverage of terrorist attacks is "desperate" when the perpetrator is a white republican
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.

Buttery
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.

Legitimate actual Nazis who killed at least one person.
_Near_ 1 day ago#16
Mal is such an obvious f***ing shill
http://i.imgur.com/QoIYepz.gif
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.
Mal_Fet 1 day ago#17
NadYobWoc posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.

Right wing terrorist attacks are the most common form of terror attack in the US

Are you including Islam-motivated attacks here or something
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
iPhone_7 1 day ago#18
The President is not afraid to issue direct personal insults to others

But when it comes to the AltRight and White Supremacists he tends to give half-assed remarks about how all sides need to settle down

So as to not alienate his base, of which there are a lot of racists and nationalists.
Medz2017 1 day ago#19
RebelElite791 posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.

Legitimate actual Nazis who killed at least one person.

do they know who did it?
Hi
Frolex 1 day ago#20
really, conservative ce's reaction to this has been equal parts disgusting and hilarious
NadYobWoc 1 day ago#21
Mal_Fet posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.

Right wing terrorist attacks are the most common form of terror attack in the US

Are you including Islam-motivated attacks here or something

I'm including any attack carried out in accordance with (non-islamic) right wing ideology. Does it not count if it's against muslims? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
(edited 1 day ago)reportquote
That darn liberal media making a big deal out of literal Nazis and terrorist attacks. God, anything to attack the right and white people.
cjsdowg 1 day ago#23
This stuff has been going on for a while, and people have not talking about it.
Bender: Well, everybody, I just saved a turtle. What have you done with your lives?
Mal_Fet 1 day ago#24
NadYobWoc posted...
I'm including any attack carried out in accordance with right wing ideology. Does it not count if it's against muslims?

The only people who would describe Islamic terrorists as "right wing" are people like you who are attempting to make the left look better by comparison.
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
Mal_Fet posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.

Right wing terrorist attacks are the most common form of terror attack in the US

Are you including Islam-motivated attacks here or something

http://www.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremism-islamist-terrorism-donald-trump-steve-bannon-628381
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/analysis-deadly-threat-far-right-extremists-overshadowed-fear-islamic-terrorism/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/terrorism-right-wing-america-muslims-islam-white-supremacists-study-a7805831.html
http://www.snopes.com/2017/06/07/threat-extremists-more/
https://theintercept.com/2017/05/31/the-numbers-dont-lie-white-far-right-terrorists-pose-a-clear-danger-to-us-all/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/opinion/finsbury-park-terrorist-attack-far-right.html
http://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf

Since September 12, 2001, the number of fatalities caused by domestic 
violent extremists has ranged from 1 to 49 in a given year. As shown in 
figure 2, fatalities resulting from attacks by far right wing violet extremists have exceeded those caused by radical Islamist violent extremists in 10 of the 15 years, and were the same in 3 of the years since September 12, 2001. Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001, far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while radical Islamis violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent). 


Bye.
Tezlok 1 day ago#26
27_Sandman_40 posted...
because the alt right are literal nazis while anti fa just shares similar ideals

Are they literal Nazis? Or do you just like to use that word? Do they salute Hitler? Do they use swastikas?
Mal_Fet posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
I'm including any attack carried out in accordance with right wing ideology. Does it not count if it's against muslims?

The only people who would describe Islamic terrorists as "right wing" are people like you who are attempting to make the left look better by comparison.

Islamic terrorists are right wing. Are you trying to call religious fundamentalism liberal? Also, he isn't talking about Islam at all, so moot point.
(edited 1 day ago)reportquote
NadYobWoc 1 day ago#28
Mal_Fet posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
I'm including any attack carried out in accordance with right wing ideology. Does it not count if it's against muslims?

The only people who would describe Islamic terrorists as "right wing" are people like you who are attempting to make the left look better by comparison.

Oh, you're going for that angle. No, I'm not counting islamic terrorist attacks, although islamic fundamentalism is absolutely a right wing ideology.
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
Tezlok posted...
27_Sandman_40 posted...
because the alt right are literal nazis while anti fa just shares similar ideals

Are they literal Nazis? Or do you just like to use that word? Do they salute Hitler? Do they use swastikas?

Yes. No. Yes. Yes.
Tezlok posted...
27_Sandman_40 posted...
because the alt right are literal nazis while anti fa just shares similar ideals

Are they literal Nazis? Or do you just like to use that word? Do they salute Hitler? Do they use swastikas?

Yes?

They saluted Hitler and Trump, wore and waved swastikas, and chanted "Blud und Boden" yesterday and today. Next?
(edited 1 day ago)reportquote
NadYobWoc 1 day ago#31
Tezlok posted...
27_Sandman_40 posted...
because the alt right are literal nazis while anti fa just shares similar ideals

Are they literal Nazis? Or do you just like to use that word? Do they salute Hitler? Do they use swastikas?

Literally yes
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
Frolex 1 day ago#32
RebelElite791 posted...
Tezlok posted...
27_Sandman_40 posted...
because the alt right are literal nazis while anti fa just shares similar ideals

Are they literal Nazis? Or do you just like to use that word? Do they salute Hitler? Do they use swastikas?

Yes?

They saluted Hitler and Trump, wore and waved swastikas, and chanted "Blud und Boden" yesterday and today. Next?


just some economically anxious locker room talk from folks who are big fans of the aesthetics of germany's flag between 1933 and 1945
Mal_Fet 1 day ago#33
hockeybub89 posted...

Islamic terrorists are right wing. Are you trying to call religious fundamentalism liberal?

"right-wing" and "liberal" are not opposites.

Also no, an ideology that wants the government and state to be united under authoritarian doctrine is not right-wing. That's basically the antithesis of right-wing.
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
(edited 1 day ago)reportquote
NadYobWoc 1 day ago#34
Mal_Fet posted...
hockeybub89 posted...

Islamic terrorists are right wing. Are you trying to call religious fundamentalism liberal?

"right-wing" and "liberal" are not opposites.

Also no, an ideology that wants the government and state to be united under authoritarian doctrine is not right-wing.

Right wing and left wing are essentially meaningless terms
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
Mal_Fet 1 day ago#35
NadYobWoc posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
hockeybub89 posted...

Islamic terrorists are right wing. Are you trying to call religious fundamentalism liberal?

"right-wing" and "liberal" are not opposites.

Also no, an ideology that wants the government and state to be united under authoritarian doctrine is not right-wing.

Right wing and left wing are essentially meaningless terms

The words have meaning, but people like hockeybub like to pretend that left = good and right = evil, when historically speaking, it's almost the exact opposite.
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
(edited 1 day ago)reportquote
Mal_Fet posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.

Right wing terrorist attacks are the most common form of terror attack in the US

Are you including Islam-motivated attacks here or something


How many liberals bomb abortion clinics?
Frolex posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Tezlok posted...
27_Sandman_40 posted...
because the alt right are literal nazis while anti fa just shares similar ideals

Are they literal Nazis? Or do you just like to use that word? Do they salute Hitler? Do they use swastikas?

Yes?

They saluted Hitler and Trump, wore and waved swastikas, and chanted "Blud und Boden" yesterday and today. Next?


just some economically anxious locker room talk from folks who are big fans of the aesthetics of germany's flag between 1933 and 1945
http://i.imgur.com/5UL2v5u.gif
"Does our ruin benefit the earth? Does it help the grass to grow, the sun to shine? Is this darkness in you, too?"
NadYobWoc 1 day ago#38
Mal_Fet posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
hockeybub89 posted...

Islamic terrorists are right wing. Are you trying to call religious fundamentalism liberal?

"right-wing" and "liberal" are not opposites.

Also no, an ideology that wants the government and state to be united under authoritarian doctrine is not right-wing.

Right wing and left wing are essentially meaningless terms

The words have meaning, but people like hockeybub like to pretend that left = good and right = evil, when historically speaking, it's almost the exact opposite.

As always, you have no self awareness
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
NadYobWoc 1 day ago#39
FantomPayne posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
Because the media is desperate to show the right as being bad after years and years of the left constantly proving how s*** they are.

Right wing terrorist attacks are the most common form of terror attack in the US

Are you including Islam-motivated attacks here or something


How many liberals bomb abortion clinics?

Or firebomb mosques

Or shoot up churches
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
#40
(message deleted)
because it's a saturday and nothing else is going on
I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen...
Mal_Fet posted...
NadYobWoc posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
hockeybub89 posted...

Islamic terrorists are right wing. Are you trying to call religious fundamentalism liberal?

"right-wing" and "liberal" are not opposites.

Also no, an ideology that wants the government and state to be united under authoritarian doctrine is not right-wing.

Right wing and left wing are essentially meaningless terms

The words have meaning, but people like hockeybub like to pretend that left = good and right = evil, when historically speaking, it's almost the exact opposite.

The f*** are you talking about? You are one of the only people I have ever seen who calls Nazis and radical Muslims leftists. I am sorry that, the independent that you are, get offended that there are evil groups on the right. I can name bad leftists. The Soviet Union, Antifa, eco-terrorists, any extreme left-wing group ever. It is pretty bold of you to assert your proper definitions all over the place when almost no one agrees with those definitions. But that just mean everyone is a scared PC liberal unlike truth-speakers like yourself, huh? And how can you have the balls to talk to me about thinking one side holds all the evil when you jump through hoops to assert anything that isn't a capitalist utopia as left-wing. A Sharia state is not left-wing or liberal or anything like that.
Does Mal actually believe "National Socialism" is socialism? Is that where he's getting his bizarre Nazis are left wing nonsense from?

What does Mal think of the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea? Are they a democratic Republic?
even if I were a woman, I would never want to be my girlfriend - Franklin
Bullet_Wing posted...
Does Mal actually believe "National Socialism" is socialism? Is that where he's getting his bizarre Nazis are left wing nonsense from?

What does Mal think of the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea? Are they a democratic Republic?

And the Congo. I bet he also thinks Bernie Sanders and Scandanavian countries are socialists.
Mal_Fet 1 day ago#45
hockeybub89 posted...
The f*** are you talking about? You are one of the only people I have ever seen who calls Nazis and radical Muslims leftists. I am sorry that, the independent that you are, get offended that there are evil groups on the right. I can name bad leftists. The Soviet Union, Antifa, eco-terrorists, any extreme left-wing group ever. It is pretty bold of you to assert your proper definitions all over the place when almost no one agrees with those definitions. But that just mean everyone is a scared PC liberal

I didn't call muslims leftists (And yes Nazis has more in common with the left, specifically socialism, than they have similar to the right).

Also, "left" is not the same thing as "liberal". If you ever went onto actual leftist forums like leftypol or something similar, you'd know that. They hate liberals.
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
Mal_Fet 1 day ago#46
Bullet_Wing posted...
Does Mal actually believe "National Socialism" is socialism?

What do you call a state that controls the means of production, dictates what products a factories are to produce, what price they're allowed to sell them for, and how much they are to pay their workers?

Sounds way more like Venezuela today than any capitalist nation, doesn't it?
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
Iodine posted...
I am in no way trying to downplay this, but none of the other Anti-fa and Alt-Right clashes gathered this much attention. Hell even high level Republicans such as Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio, and Paul Ryan have come out and condemned the Alt-Right which never happens.

Antifa are general anarchists, Alt-Right are literal mein kampf reading nazis.
NadYobWoc 1 day ago#48
Mal_Fet posted...
Bullet_Wing posted...
Does Mal actually believe "National Socialism" is socialism?

What do you call a state that controls the means of production, dictates what products a factories are to produce, what price they're allowed to sell them for, and how much they are to pay their workers?


Every allied country during WWII?
Cowboy Dan's a major player in the cowboy scene
Antifar 1 day ago#49
It's not every day a bunch of folks gather around a Confederate statue with torches chanting "blood and soil." The events of last night primed coverage for today.
kin to all that throbs
Mal_Fet posted...
hockeybub89 posted...
The f*** are you talking about? You are one of the only people I have ever seen who calls Nazis and radical Muslims leftists. I am sorry that, the independent that you are, get offended that there are evil groups on the right. I can name bad leftists. The Soviet Union, Antifa, eco-terrorists, any extreme left-wing group ever. It is pretty bold of you to assert your proper definitions all over the place when almost no one agrees with those definitions. But that just mean everyone is a scared PC liberal

I didn't call muslims leftists (And yes Nazis has more in common with the left, specifically socialism, than they have similar to the right).

Also, "left" is not the same thing as "liberal". If you ever went onto actual leftist forums like leftypol or something similar, you'd know that. They hate liberals.

Muslims extremists and Nazis are not left-wing, leftist, liberal (left or otherwise), anything like that. Me conflating terms doesn't change that. You are making up s*** up that no one has ever considered the truth. You assert that government control is unique to the left and that is laughably untrue.
(edited 1 day ago)reportquote
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  3. Why did the incident in Charlottesville gather so much media attention?
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    3. Why did the incident in Charlottesville gather so much media attention?
    Bat178 1 day ago#51
    RebelElite791 posted...
    Tezlok posted...
    27_Sandman_40 posted...
    because the alt right are literal nazis while anti fa just shares similar ideals

    Are they literal Nazis? Or do you just like to use that word? Do they salute Hitler? Do they use swastikas?

    Yes?

    They saluted Hitler and Trump, wore and waved swastikas, and chanted "Blud und Boden" yesterday and today. Next?

    Anyone else willing to bet most of them can't speak actual German and aren't even of German descent?
    Awww, isn't that cute? He thinks he can beat me!
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    Mal_Fet posted...
    What do you call a state that controls the means of production, dictates what products a factories are to produce, what price they're allowed to sell them for, and how much they are to pay their workers?

    That's called Communism. Specifically, Soviet style Communism and not Marxism.
    Kazi1212 1 day ago#53
    Any group of people who advocate for violence I would put out of left/right or liberal/conservative dichotomy entirely and call them radicals. Theres no place for violence in a civilized society, pure and simple
    You have to be high to understand Jon Stewart, he is pinker than an Indian river grapefruit.-Stephen Colbert
    Antifar 1 day ago#54
    Contemporary socialists and communists certainly were not celebrating Hitler's rise. But I'm sure Mal knows more about the tenets of socialism than the socialists.
    kin to all that throbs
    Antifar 1 day ago#55
    Kazi1212 posted...
    Any group of people who advocate for violence I would put out of left/right or liberal/conservative dichotomy entirely and call them radicals.

    Are you including war as violence, or excluding it to avoid the awkward situation of declaring all of mainstream politics to be radical?
    kin to all that throbs
    Antifar posted...
    Contemporary socialists and communists certainly were not celebrating Hitler's rise. But I'm sure Mal knows more about the tenets of socialism than the socialists.

    The National Socialist party was a socialist grassroots movement that was hijacked by HItler and they transformed it into something that had nothing to do with Socialism but they kept the name.

    Hitler hated Socialism unless it had to do with war efforts. The only thing he hated more than Socialism was Jews.
    Kazi1212 1 day ago#57
    Antifar posted...
    Kazi1212 posted...
    Any group of people who advocate for violence I would put out of left/right or liberal/conservative dichotomy entirely and call them radicals.

    Are you including war as violence, or excluding it to avoid the awkward situation of declaring all of mainstream politics to be radical?


    More dicey waters, because war also includes that of self-defense, but yea I'm including war as violence. Anyone who doesnt agree with the non-aggression principle is radical as far as I'm concerned, but theres plenty of leftists as well as the far right who believes in it, most notably left and right anarchists.
    You have to be high to understand Jon Stewart, he is pinker than an Indian river grapefruit.-Stephen Colbert
    Antifar 1 day ago#58
    Fair enough
    kin to all that throbs
    Mal_Fet 1 day ago#59
    ChromaticAngel posted...
    That's called Communism. Specifically, Soviet style Communism and not Marxism.

    Marx said that the goal of Socialism was to create Communism.

    If anything, Hitler was a "tankie" socialist with a nationalist dint, like Stalin was except Stalin was globalist.
    Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    -George Orwell
    Mal_Fet posted...
    ChromaticAngel posted...
    That's called Communism. Specifically, Soviet style Communism and not Marxism.

    Marx said that the goal of Socialism was to create Communism.

    If anything, Hitler was a "tankie" socialist with a nationalist dint, like Stalin was except Stalin was globalist.


    That's not what Marx said at all. Marx defined Socialism as a transitionary phase to Communism after the collapse of a capitalist government due to unsustainable capitalist policies.
    Antifar posted...
    Contemporary socialists and communists certainly were not celebrating Hitler's rise. But I'm sure Mal knows more about the tenets of socialism than the socialists.


    The whole thing falls apart immediately when you remember socialists were on the Nazis' hit list. And Hitler hated communism. That was one of the major driving forces of the Eastern front and why it was so much more brutal than the Western front.

    Mal is using a definition of socialism that no academic uses.
    CrimsonRage posted...
    academic

    You mean nerds
    - literal garbage
    Because in this case the "right" was in the wrong.
    Father's dream; devour the twin. Sisters scream "for our sins."
    They'll cut their flesh to make amends, and grasp for ghosts that savior sends.
    Xeno14 1 day ago#64
    ratings. the media has generally been stoking the flames of this s*** for a long time. the more explosive the results of violence the more eyes drawn to it, the more they can make.

    Antifar posted...
    Contemporary socialists and communists certainly were not celebrating Hitler's rise. But I'm sure Mal knows more about the tenets of socialism than the socialists.

    No they fueled it with their own idiocy by leading attempts to overthrow the government via violent means that destabilized the government, and ultimately paved the way for a group of violent idiots to seize power.
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