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Showing posts with label Esports. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Esports. Show all posts

October 5, 2018

When will E-sports be more popular then real sports?

There's a LOT of factors at play here. I'm going to do this in one shot, so excuse my if I jump around and lack cohesion at some points, it's more of a thought dump.

Source: Former upper management at a professional esports organization in NA.

Let's start with culture. But it goes beyond that too. Humans, in general, are stubborn and lazy. This isn't a derogatory either. We do this to simplify things and keep routines so the brain doesn't have to work as hard. So changing things is really hard. Like MLB. If the baseball was founded in 2015 and the MLB in 2016, it would NEVER EVER make it to television. Having a primetime TV spot every night is huge! You have no idea how much exposure that gives you just from TVs being left on. You gain fans and viewership that way in ways that are immeasurable.

But not only that, as stated, MLB would NEVER make it to TV at all. With the exception of say the NYY, BRS and maybe the Dodgers, no team carries the viewership to make MLB sustainable. Most baseball games DO NOT sellout anymore. If the yankees are in town or it's a noteworthy rivalry, yea, aside from that, no. Most teams subsist on corporate sponsors and, just a guess, 1/4 or more of the seats on any given night are GIVEN away freely. When Sony sponsors the Yankees for $3M+/year, Sony gets STACKS of tickets every week to give out to employees, friends and family. I'm serious, stacks, thousands of tickets. WB Mason, all the sponsors of every team, they get stacks of tickets to fill that stadium. This is also why a hot dog and a beer costs you 30$. Your subsidizing the seat.

And speaking of sponsors, money makes things better. Do you think MLB and NFL get multi million dollar sponsorships in 30 second pitch meetings? No, they've been cultivating these for decades. The new guy in town has 30 seconds to prove themselves. The NFL has had 60 years of meetings to continue to establish value. It is NOT a level playing ground, so this makes it really hard for esports to get the resources and exposure it needs to grow like the NFL.

But that doesn't answer the changes about the game. The NFL and MLB do change. All major sports do! They get rule changes every year. We just don't get the patch notes unless you go digging. They don't affect the group of guys who play rough touch after work on fridays.

Sports basically have devs making changes too, but they go less noticed, until they're major and you hear about it in the news like the NFL changes to roughing the passer or what is a completion. This draws controversy and sometimes that helps.

Also, players change the meta in traditional sports too. Football started out as running the ball and kicking field goals. A forward pass wasn't a thing. You just don't see insane innovation like that EVERY game. Esports has had a very short lifespan so far, 20-25 years. CS 1.X had a REALLY long run too, basically with only minor rule changes, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6. Thats WAY less changes than the NFL has had in that same timespan. But at the end of the day, when the NFL changes the rule is the same as Valve patching DOTA. The meta evolves accordingly.

You also don't realize how many sports have come and live in the shadows too. XFL, American Ninja Warrior, Crossfit games (lol), World Arm Wrestling Championship, Drone Racing. You're essentially comparing a specific esports title to the exception, NFL. NFL is setting all the rules of sports viewership, this is all uncharted territory. The same goes for esports.

But why aren't people bored of football? Well, they change the rules to keep it interesting. Remember how bullshit OT used to be in the NFL? Patched. Remember toe kickers in the NFL who could hit a FG at 70+ yards but it was 50/50, now they do it at 50 for something like 85% of the time. Meta change.

A lot of it also has to do with regionalization of pro sports (which was innate, because some of them existed before TV and obviously streaming). Most fans of a pro team are a fan because they were born there or because their parents were/are fans. It's part of the culture. And changing culture is REALLY HARD. It takes generations for that to happen (as mentioned earlier, humans are stubborn and lazy).

If you saw MLB started in 2015, they'd most likely try to consolidate all the pro talent in one major city, form a bunch of teams and play out of one stadium to conserve costs. Exactly like LCS does. Traveling to all these cities is a MASSIVE luxury you can only afford to do with the resources they have had a stranglehold on for generations.

The reason for this stranglehold is again, the stubbornness and laziness of humans. 30 second pitch meeting, don't like it? Not taking any esports meeting for the next year or 2. This takes forever to change. Some of the biggest esports sponsors only got involved because someone young rose through the ranks over the years to get to a decision maker position and was either a friend of an owner OR was already a fan and wanted to get involved that way. These resources make it possible to advertise your matches on reddit which drives viewership. Do you realize how much advertising you see for the world series? It's every other fucking commercial during October. If the sport is that enthralling, why spend so much on advertising? They get deals through their corporate partnerships and they need the exposure. Esports doesn't have the resources to do this, for the most part. It's getting there.

But there's a lot of people who still just don't "get it". And this is really evident. Let's take DOTA2. 25M+ raised for TI prize pool (100M donated), PLUS all the twitch subs, PLUS all the direct donations to players, PLUS all the other money spent in game, PLUS all the time spent watching, PLUS whatever else I'm not thinking of. DOTA2 has one event that generates more revenue than some countries! A lot of businesses and people just don't understand how to tap into that. Granted, it's also really hard. But with that much money being thrown around, you'd think they'd see the value and would invest the time it takes to figure out how to get their piece of the pie.

Personally, I don't like it being called e-sports at all... as it doesn't really meet the definition of sport at all (see below). There is a huge amount of skill to be good at a video game, but you can be a 400lb out of shape neckbeard and be great at video games, which you cannot for virtually any other sport (which plays into what others have said about impressing a casual observer).

I think esports are virtually never interesting to a casual observer - they are really only interesting to those who also PLAY the games, whereas most fans of football, futbol, baseball, basketball, etc have either never played or not since they were kids.

Because real sports takes years to adapt to a "meta" While e-sports "meta" is adapted to in a couple clicks. And will become the standard for the remainder of that game season.

For example using "meta" in NBA terms. The current meta-game is the "golden state warriors" heavy 3 point shooting and spaced out offense, They have been the team to beat for the past 5 years, a combination of player skill and elite coaching/playmaking led them there. This cannot be easily replicated and is the reason why they eviscerate the 2nd best team in the league with ease.

In a video game, players quickly use mathematics and map sense to find "OP" team combinations and implement them as soon as possible. Once other players become aware of this they can easily switch their meta game as well or else they can't compete. While I know player skill has alot to do with gaming. It will always be held back by character design that makes it "easier". hence the term "OP" and "cheese". simple tactics that any player can pickup and become relatively skilled. I can't jump on nba court and expect to score a basket. I'm sure I could jump on a pro esports team and get a couple kills if you point me toward the character who best manipulates the game mechanics.

To be fair, there is nothing to gain at being at an esport event other than the crowd. Watching someone at a console push buttons on a controller does not have the same effect of watching Lebron slam one down in person 50-100ft away. The physicality, the banter between players, the coaching, all aren’t seen on the esport scene. I’m grateful we live in an age where I can stream a grand final tourney, but BEING at a stadium for a walk off grand slam will always be more memorable than a great clutch headshot and watching them move mouse and click keystrokes. I enjoy both, but computers and video games start their public use around the 70s. Sports have existed since people have been around.

Not as drastic as e-sports, but sports also change. The rules are changed, in a sense to stay relevant or at least not to stagnate. I don't know the details, but rules of wrestling competitions had a big overhaul years ago. The soccer rules are changing steadily for a more streamlined game. I remember back then when they have decided to ban back passes to goalkeepers and forcing goalkeepers to start the game in 6 seconds when ball is in their hands. Also, if you were to watch a match from 80's, you would see sliding tackles that would result a direct red card today deemed legit by referees. The traditional sports, although the essence is still there (Still there are two guys trying to topple each other or 22 guys running after the ball), are also evolving.

The overlooked reason here is that sports and games with longevity are symmetric. In football, basketball, and even games like Chess and Go, both sides begin with exactly the same initial conditions aside from the skill of the players involved.

The games are also sufficiently complex that they aren't "solved" like tic-tac-toe and checkers, so there is enough variety to keep people watching or playing them.

As others have said, games that exist in the real-world and are complex enough require a lifetime of training to get good at, and actual sports require significant and noticeable changes to your physical body as well.

You don't need to change the game to make it interesting when you meet those criteria.

In video games, something can only happen if it is programmed to happen. The things that a player can do are very strictly limited by the programming. This goes beyond the rules of the game, and into things like the engine used to run the game. This means that there are a finite number of things that are possible.

A person who plays a game a lot, like a professional player, is going to get a very solid understanding of not just the rules of the game, but the rules of the game universe. They know that doing XYZ under circumstances ABC will result in 123 happening. Randomness is eliminated. I press the button at the right time 100 times, the ball goes into the hoop 100 times.

In real life, the exact same thing is true. However, the "programming" of real life is massive when compared to the programming of a video game. At the moment, no single person has the ability to get a solid understanding of the rules of the universe. Heck, the collective knowledge of mankind has barely scratched the surface. No matter how many times you practice throwing a ball through a hoop, there will always be factors that you are unaware of or unable to account for. "Randomness" is a bigger factor. I throw a ball into a hoop 100 times, I probably miss a few times.

So, real sports have a degree of randomness and significantly more skill involved in overcoming the randomness of the situation. Esports have far less randomness involved and the skills involved are significantly more mechanical. Against two evenly skilled opponents, it often comes down to rock-paper-scissors.

The result is that people tend to get bored of Esports more quickly. Enough people figure out the system of the game and can predict the outcome of matches very early on. "Looks like Tommy messed up his build queue, he's going to end up losing in 30 minutes." "Scott is going for marines, but Bill is going for roaches. Bill will win."

As a result of this, Esports need to constantly change in order to keep the attention of the viewers. Because people figure out the rules of the universe so much more quickly in games than in real life, they need to change the universe more often in order to maintain randomness.

There are a lot of posts here talking about physical sports vs esports, but what about (largely) purely intellectual contests? Leaving aside the definition of sport for a moment, chess and poker still keep a fanbase, and while they both innovate, a game of Texas Hold'em / a game of even bullet chess would be recognisable to a player from 50/100 years ago.

I think the most obvious difference is that esports is still a very young field. Maybe in another 10 years we will have 'classic' formats that don't really change that fast - something that will come about by evolution and a certain amount of trial and error. Those stable formats will have to time to generate a culture and a history that keeps fans engaged, and provides a context for competition and achievements: a certain amount of 'lore' if you will.

As a personal point, I don't think that most esports have yet figured out the fan experience yet. Most sports fans aren't players (at least, most aren't that good). For example, a lot of esports don't seem to realise that the best viewpoint for a player is not the best view for the spectator (especially in a multiplayer environment). I watched a CS tournament on TV, and almost everything was a reflection of player's own screens, and therefore incredibly confusing as a result. This makes stuff appealing only to the initiated/hardcore fan.

So, I’m a very casual video game player... kind of like how most people who watch sports casually understand the physical and tactical aspects of the sport. I have watched esports in TV and in person, but I’ve never enjoyed it. It’s hard for me to relate to the player and become invested in the action. When I watch someone play poker, having played poker myself, I can relate to the experience. I can emotionally connect with the situation. I don’t connect with esports in the same way. I think this is largely because the action is derived from watching an avatar of a person perform actions, while the person performing the action really disassociated from the action. I had the same reaction to watching drone racing. I find the casual viewership of car racing exciting and engaging, because even though I only see the car, I can relate and invest in the driver performing the action... I didn’t have the same reaction watching guys in chairs pilot drones. The pilot was disassociated from the action.

Which esports games in particular are you referring to? Most changes to popular esports games are balance related, as opposed to sweeping redesigns in an attempt to keep the game intetesting. The most popular esports games have had the same core gameplay beyond those balance changes throughout their life cycle, for the most part. The biggest thing would be new content (maps, weapons, characters etc), which is usually introduced as a form of balance, but yes, to also keep things fresh and exciting because there's a lot more competiton, and new competiton being introduced regularly.

The main reason esports games die is either because something new in the same or a similar genre comes along and goes viral and blows up and splits/pulls viewership, or the game fails to breakthrough and garner enough attention to become and remain relevant. Typical sports don't face the same issue. When was the last time a new sport popped up and became popular enough to contend with an existing staple? Probably mma pulling people away from boxing, but that didn't happen overnight, and boxing is still pretty popular and relevant.

People also tend to have a visceral reaction to unpopular balance changes or new content which can make a game less exciting to watch. Sports can have minor rule tweaks, but there aren't "balance" changes, new field layouts/configurations aren't introduced, a new kind of ball or goal isn't added, etc.

Sports do change over time. They just change at a much slower pace. Take basketball for example. In college, I did a study of basketball from 1990-2015 and the changes in test structure over time using a clustering algorithm. It showed that in 1990s the "meta" (using gaming lingo) was to have a 7' center, 6'10" PF, 6'8" SF, 6'6" SG, 6' PG as the lineup that gets the most minutes. The reason? In the 80s, Magic Johnson and Kareem in LA and Larry Bird in Boston and they changed the way the game was played--you had to have people who could guard all of them or you would lose. By the time LeBron came around, the PF position was completely redefined because you had to deal with him. Basketball also makes rule changes that cause the change in meta. For instance, basketball in the 90s did not allow zone defenses. If you double teamed someone you had to literally run at them to avoid an illegal defense. It also allowed more physical play such as extending your arm in the post to hold the offensive payer in place. Also no flagrant could. All of those rules have changed and this has made smaller players more useful in today's game because you can't just straight overpower them. Now we see the birth of Chris Paul, James Harden, and Steph Curry who have changed the game to make it more fluid.

Rule changes keep the game interesting and create new metas. Every sport goes through this. Esports have more competition hence more changes. Dota is constantly being challenged by new games to take the popularity. Who challenges the NBA? In the 60s and 70s, the NBA competed with the ABA and the game changed rapidly to the point where bad decisions were made on both sides and they almost collapsed.

While it happens at a faster pace in esports, this statement is actually false. The NBA (who I’d argue is the frontrunner for being innovative and adding new viewers) has added a shot clock, added a time set to being in the paint; has added new teams and has changed the draft / entrance rules and typically has 2-3 rule changes every year (although not noticeable to the average joe). The NFL within his the last couple years has moved back the PAT kick, pretty sure they’ve changed the kickoff and are considering removing it all together. Not to mention overtime rule changes. The NHL has also recently implemented overtime rule changes that even go as far to change how many people are on the ice. The MLB I’m pretty sure In recent years has either changed the base length in some way or pitching in one way or another.

While the games themselves seem to change every year at a much faster pace it’s typically Bc there’s an entirely new game out anyway.

The games have changed dramatically over the years over what seem to be simple rule changes. And now we’ve entered the age of math in sports which has completely changed how teams are built across a variety of sports.

Personally basketball is my favorite and you can truly dive deep down the rabbit whole into the analytics but the sports were watching today are quite different than the same sort of 10-20 years ago

Simplest answer is that in traditional sports the athlete is the entertainment, their personality, talent and effort are what draw in viewers, the game is just a structure to show those things off. In e-sports the game is the draw, the developers the real stars, some players/teams will get notoriety by really they main purpose is to drive the game forward and challenge the developers. If the players and systems don’t challenge the developers then the game becomes stagnant and uninteresting, something that won’t happen in traditional sports because the game isn’t the driver of entertainment value.

Sports vs E-sports

How sports are able to keep such high viewership without any change while esports games need to change constantly to stay relevant?

Sports, in general, are immediately impressive. You don’t need any context to be amazed by speed, dexterity, explosiveness, size...the list goes on. You know you can’t do what you see these athletes do.

Esports require insane context. Most people have no idea if what they are watching is hard (and the skill and dedication it takes) or not until they’ve experienced it directly.

A hundred hours in most games in not enough to remotely appreciate it. Because the higher you climb the more u appreciate the little things and the insane difference between two levels where most people can’t see a difference at all. I’m champ 3 in rocket league in I watch mid champ 2 gameplay and grand champ gameplay and can’t see the difference most of the time . But in game, I can feel it all day. A game like league or dota takes thousands of hours to get to that point

This ignores the fact that you've got years upon years of knowledge of sports and the physical capabilities of athletes to base any viewing of a sports play on, but lack that context for an e-sport. It's hard to grow up in America with access to television or with a family member who's fond of sports and not osmose some of that information. The average American is intimately more familiar with the workings of football or baseball than they are of even the most popular videogame.

Everyone has some basic idea of how fast a person can run. If you saw footage of someone running at some speed, you'd be able to tell from their own movements and how quickly they clear other objects (like painted lines on the ground) whether this person is hauling ass or jogging leisurely. You can do that because you've seen tons of people run, and you can run yourself. But pressing buttons with split-second timing in a precise but rapid sequence? That's something the average person could go their entire life without experiencing.

But pressing buttons with split-second timing in a precise but rapid sequence? That's something the average person could go their entire life without experiencing.

It even goes beyond that, at least in some esports. I'm mostly (okay, basically exclusively) familiar with Starcraft Brood War. And at least in those events, you don't even see what the players are actually doing in the sense of seeing their hands; you just see the end result on screen. At least if you saw their hands, you could think "that's really fast and I guess they're actually doing things at that speed", but it's usually hard to see that from the end result.

Casters will spectate the game with live commentary and in both Brood War and SC2 you can see the resources that the players have and their APM (actions per minute, which for most pros is around 400!!!) In SC2 you can also see production and units killed. When you watch the game you don't see the player's cameras and the casters can look anywhere on the map but will focus on important things like battles or skirmishes or buildings being made. Its a really fun game to watch and when you play it you really appreciate the skill it takes to play at that high of a level.

A lot of it comes down to with what people are familiar with. Its not fun to watch something you don’t understand. I grew up pretty much almost never playing or watching sports but played tons of video games, so consequently I can enjoy watching speedruns and esports as I can understand how they work and the skill required for them.

But less than a year ago I learned how to play tennis, and now I enjoy watching tennis. Now that I understand how the game works and have experienced firsthand what its like to be on the court and have great moments as well as fail miserably at a low level, I can appreciate it when its played at a professional level. Humans just like what they know.

Just to clarify, I don’t necessarily go out of my way to watch either, but I can appreciate them when I do see them.

Video games exist in a consumer bubble.

Sports don't. Sports don't change. Sports don't get re written, or replaced. You can't change physics. And to get good at a sport athletes spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and for some sports their entire lifetime getting good at it.

Then take a new game. It's going to be replaced by another new engine with better graphics that takes what that game did, but does it better.

People want esports to be taken seriously like real sports. It's competitive and entertaining. But something new comes along all the time. Even the most popular, intensive game like dota, hasn't existed a fraction of the time of a lot of the popular sports. So it can't have the same trans generational appeal.

Sports largely exist as entertainment. That's why they have monetary value (advertisement potential). But they exist in our society for complex reasons like mastery, didactis and some believe a replacement for war. Esports will always struggle to be in the same area because they can't natually/quickly appeal to society outside those who play the game. There isn't a physical component to it either. Your grandfather can't sit there and watch you play and be impressed the very first time he see's it. But he can watch someone basically defy physics on the tv and be impressed the very first time. He can make sense of what he's watching. And again, 10 years from now that game will be replaced; there never will be a catch up period.

Smash is one of the easier esports to understand though. It's 1v1, winning and losing is measured by the amount of lives and the percent.

In Dota no one is going to understand that an Alchemist draft having a 5K gold lead isn't that much because Alchemist fundamentally farms much faster than other Heroes.

The Dota play is very impressive because they set up a Fatal Bonds Starfall combo to hit multiple Heroes but it makes absolutely no sense to a casual viewer.

I feel like your comment is another big reason on why traditional sports has a wider, trans-generational viewer base. At the surface, I think most people, even casual gamers, views esports being boiled down to hand eye coordination, or what we term "micro play". This means things like, getting a certain combination of button presses with the right timing, or knowing what to purchase for a certain character etc. Plays that revolve around the small, immediate decisions that you are able to execute on the spot. That's certainly one component of it, but it's equivalent to saying basketball is about height, or football about speed. Of course, there certainly will be differences between video games, but at the highest level, competitive play really revolves around strategy and teamwork (i.e. the ability to execute the strategy/adapt to opponents). This is known as "macro play", or as I like to view it: decisions you make in light of the entire game. This is simply because micro play is almost always limited by the fact that we are humans and have biological limits.

A simple example, and I'll use soccer since it's hard to explain with esports without some prior knowledge: micro play would mean, as a forward, should I continue forward and attempt to bypass defenders with my footwork or should I pass now to maintain possession. Then you'd probably evaluate who the defenders are, how many of them are there, how likely you are to succeed going through them, and if there are teammates around you who are ready for either play. Macro play on the other hand, again in the same position, would mean sth like: I know we are 1-0 up, and there's 10 minutes left to the game. It's our game to lose now so my best bet is to maintain ball possession and tire them. Hence, get this game plan across to my team, and try our best to execute it. This means, you might not even take what seems like an easy defense line since your goal is to maintain possession. (example on how micro and macro conflicts)

Most traditional sports are pretty simple from a viewer's perspective. Like, tons of people that watch the NFL don't have nuanced understanding of formations, strategy or even what the difference between encroachment and off-sides is, but most humans if allowed to watch say, one quarter could probably explain "one team is trying to make the ball go that way, and the other team is trying to stop them."

Also, like you said, it's much easier to perceive the skill involved in a say, football or basketball, even if you have never played. Seeing an actual human, do things that are very hard or impossible for most other humans is easy to recognize and most people like to watch other people do things they can't.

Watching a game of LoL/Starcraft/COD/Overwatch is harder if the person does not have experience with that particular title, or video games in general. I get excited watching C9 Sneaky steal a drake with lucian W when the other team's jungler is right there in the pit because I KNOW how hard that is, that it was a rare play to see, the skill of the attempted play involved and a million other details about what is going on. My wife on the other hand, seeing the same play, has no context for why that should be applauded. Neither of us are talented swimmers, but we can both watch Olympic pairs diving and marvel at the great divers because all humans have some sort of understanding of how hard co-coordinating intricate patters of movement with another human is.

Not to mention that changes occur slowly in most physical sports, due to familiarity and the fact that the "balance" of those sports is generally determined by the physical characteristics of the players. Where as in Esports, patches come out relatively often and sometimes change the game monumentally. An esports team might do really well one season, but then not so well another because a particular map/champion/item that they utilized heavily was nerfed, but a football field will always be 100 yards from end zone to end zone and the devs can't just tweek Jerome Bettis' stats a little when he runs mother fuckers over and has 6 1000 yard seasons in a row.

In addition, most esports are not location specific. I am a Patriots fan because my father was born and raised in Newton Ma. and I still live in NE. I have a friend from Philly who doesn't even watch football, but still calls himself an Eagles fan. Esports are inherently NOT physically limited. Team Liquid is... well they are just Team Liquid, not LA liquid, not Brazil Liquid, not Houston Liquid, just Team Liquid. This is cool, in a way, but it disallows the casual fan from even being a fan based solely on proximity.

It's because sports take place in the real world, both in terms of human capabilities and the physics of the planet itself. So people can

 instantly compare sports to their own abilities, or what they have seen happening around them every day of their lives.

I have been able to run, jump, and throw for as long as I can remember. So, even before I know the rules of a sport, if I see some run faster, or jump higher, or throw farther than I ever have, I immediately know how difficult and impressive it is.

With e-sports I have none of that context. I have absolutely no inherant knowledge of what is easy and what is difficult, what is mundane and what is extraordinary. You have to learn the environment in which the game exists and operates before you can even begin to appreciate how impressive people's actions may be.

Essentially here is no barrier to entry when it comes to starting to appreciate sports, as we've been subconsciously learning the core 'rule-set' without even knowing it our entire lives. E-sports will never have that luxury.

Esports are also inaccessible to some people - a spectator who isnt familiar with the game being played may not know what the objective is, or how the teams work, or even the most basic of rules. And it can be hard to learn that by just casually watching, impossible in some cases.

Compare hockey with starcraft for instance. If I had no idea how hockey was played when I first started watching, I can quickly figure out the overall goal - get the puck into the other teams net, the team that does this the most in 1 hour of play wins, they take a break every 20 minutes. I can figure out what everyone's job is, and what is and is not allowed in normal play. Sure I might not know what the hell an icing is, but I got enough of an idea on what's going on to enjoy myself. I can get excited when one team is close to scoring, because I know the team is close to scoring

Now with starcraft. If I had no idea how the game was played I could grasp the overall objective quickly enough - destroy the other army, but I may not know exactly how that's achieved. Is it the most damage in x number of minutes, if it is, then how is that measured? do they have to destroy all the buildings? Do they need to kill the little robot guys getting crystals? This is hurt by one of the two teams usually forfeiting before the actual game is completed - as a viewer unfamiliar with the game i might not always recognize that the forfeiting player is in an unwinnable position, and simply quit to save everyone 40 minutes of a slow boring attrition.

And that's just problems with the fundamental goal, a new casual observer would have a hard time figuring out what all the units are, what they do, in what situation should they be used, why they're only sticking with a small fraction of the available units and so on. To a new viewer to competitive starcraft, it's a jumbled mess of flashy graphics and confusing terms. So when a real big game changing push happens, I dont get excited, because I had no idea what was happening or how important it was. Sure I might have a decent enough time, but I might not dive deeper into the esport to really get involved.

And to nip off any "but those are casuals, no one cares about casuals", please remember that today's casual viewers are tomorrow's hardcore fans. If you dont give them a reason to care, and you make it hard for them to understand why its exciting don't be surprised when they stop viewing the content. You dont need to dumb down the game, you just need to present the information to the viewer in a way that helps guide the viewer to understanding what's going on without needing to watch a tutorial on the game.

August 14, 2017

Esports being considered for the 2024 Olympic games

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Anisoptera 4 days ago#1
Bio1590 4 days ago#2
lol imagine some neckbeards receiving olympic medals
Shenmue II = best game of all time
Shenmue = 2nd best game of all time
Shotgunnova 4 days ago#4
"And here comes the Overwatch team, favorites to win the 200m Casual"
Take me down from the ridge where the summer ends
And watch the city spread out just like a jet's flame
gafemaqs 4 days ago#5
"Esports" is an oxymoron. It's just playing video games.
What's next, Tee-Ball?
Sayoria 4 days ago#8
Hell no. Keep that s*** out of the Olympics. ~ ~
The_Doge 4 days ago#9
Swagnificent119 posted...

Wow such signature join Dogefaqs today
OctilIery 4 days ago#10
I love esports, but no. Olympics are specifically physical.
CensorErik 4 days ago#11
I'm a firm believer that sports are exclusively athletic competitions. I know that's an old man's mindset and I should evolve, but get the F off my lawn and F off with that S.
The new age is upon us
_Kowalski_ 2 days ago#13
Man drone racing is so dope. That's gonna be bigger than NASCAR in a decade. I'm legit discussing getting into it right now with a cinematographer I know who films with drones.
Bloodychess 2 days ago#14
Bio1590 posted...
Man I thought this said "Escorts"
Sweet dreams are made of cheese
Who am I to diss a brie?
Bio1590 posted...
Man I thought this said "Escorts"
I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen...
F1rstBlood 2 days ago#16
Fair next. These international tournaments already get way more viewership than many Olympic events.
Gears Forever
MemeDaddy 2 days ago#17
OctilIery posted...
I love esports, but no. Olympics are specifically physical.

Oh cool, you think competitive gaming is purely mental
kill me
Turtlebread 2 days ago#18
MemeDaddy posted...
OctilIery posted...
I love esports, but no. Olympics are specifically physical.

Oh cool, you think competitive gaming is purely mental

twiddling your thumbs and fingers doesn't count as exercise
pro gamers would do terrible in the olympics anyway since they're all on adderal and they'd get drug tested
I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen...
CADE FOSTER 2 days ago#20
FrisbeeDude 2 days ago#21
OctilIery posted...
I love esports, but no. Olympics are specifically physical.

You don't think dexterity and instant decision making are physical?
No one gets in the way of my frisbee games! NO ONE!
CADE FOSTER 2 days ago#22
Sayoria posted...
Hell no. Keep that s*** out of the Olympics.


Hard to keep it consistent too. Since games that are popular in comp settings are changing all the time
FrisbeeDude posted...
OctilIery posted...
I love esports, but no. Olympics are specifically physical.

You don't think dexterity and instant decision making are physical?

yeah, i mean s*** rifling is already an olympic sport. not much difference in actual physical output
You're such a boring characterless entity. Try getting laid once in a while and maybe you'll have friends and find out what a "joke" is. - derrate
Manocheese 2 days ago#25
Bio1590 posted...
Man I thought this said "Escorts"
()_() Hardcore - We'll probably be modded for this...
Manocheese 2 days ago#26
_Kowalski_ posted...
Man drone racing is so dope. That's gonna be bigger than NASCAR in a decade. I'm legit discussing getting into it right now with a cinematographer I know who films with drones.

RIP Man drone
Died at the height shot up to 97 feet
()_() Hardcore - We'll probably be modded for this...
__aCEr__ 2 days ago#27
How do we nullify all the sex that will be had in Paris and the Olympic village? Throw in Counterstrike.
__aCEr__ posted...
How do we nullify all the sex that will be had in Paris and the Olympic village? Throw in Counterstrike.

Welcome to our organization.
APM 7 hours ago#29
very disgusting
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