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Showing posts with label Health Insurance. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Health Insurance. Show all posts

July 28, 2017

They need to abolish health insurance

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  3. They need to abolish health insurance
solosnake 1 week ago#1
just make a health tax and have universal health care, treat everyone for free with any condition. Get rid of this idea of health insurance. stop monetizing medicines. 

but who am I kidding, we live in a capitalist society
"We would have no NBA possibly if they got rid of all the flopping." ~ Dwyane Wade
http://i.imgur.com/MYYEIx5.gif http://i.imgur.com/WGE12ef.jpg
Annihilated 1 week ago#2
Millions of jobs would be lost without the health insurance industry. Of course some might be created by the expanding health care sector, but they wouldn't come close to making up for it.
solosnake posted...
but who am I kidding, we live in a capitalist society

So do countries with universal healthcare yet they make it work.
solosnake 1 week ago#4
Annihilated posted...
Millions of jobs would be lost without the health insurance industry. Of course some might be created by the expanding health care sector, but they wouldn't come close to making up for it.

honestly, those jobs arent helping society, they are actively harming it.
"We would have no NBA possibly if they got rid of all the flopping." ~ Dwyane Wade
http://i.imgur.com/MYYEIx5.gif http://i.imgur.com/WGE12ef.jpg
solosnake posted...
honestly, those jobs arent helping society, they are actively harming it.

This
walk like thunder
ZeldaMutant 1 week ago#6
Annihilated posted...
Millions of jobs would be lost without the health insurance industry. Of course some might be created by the expanding health care sector, but they wouldn't come close to making up for it.
Broken window fallacy. Jobs that are a waste of resources should disappear.
96065
solosnake posted...
Annihilated posted...
Millions of jobs would be lost without the health insurance industry. Of course some might be created by the expanding health care sector, but they wouldn't come close to making up for it.

honestly, those jobs arent helping society, they are actively harming it.


This is horses***.

ZeldaMutant posted...
Annihilated posted...
Millions of jobs would be lost without the health insurance industry. Of course some might be created by the expanding health care sector, but they wouldn't come close to making up for it.
Broken window fallacy. Jobs that are a waste of resources should disappear.


Who decides which jobs are a good use of resources?
Annihilated posted...
Millions of jobs would be lost without the health insurance industry.


Paper pushing.

Eliminate the middle man bureaucracy and maybe we'll get more funding for graduate medical education and healthcare staff actually involved in patient care instead of bookkeeping for companies that just shave off money from the healthcare industry pie that just maximizes profit for people who don't do anything with patients.
"He has two neurons held together by a spirochete."
Annihilated 1 week ago#9
solosnake posted...
Annihilated posted...
Millions of jobs would be lost without the health insurance industry. Of course some might be created by the expanding health care sector, but they wouldn't come close to making up for it.

honestly, those jobs arent helping society, they are actively harming it.


LMAO. Middle class jobs who fuel spending for businesses and companies of all sizes are "harming society" because reasons.

Transcendentia posted...
Who decides which jobs are a good use of resources?


Why, the people who think their own job is worth $15 an hour of course.
Annihilated posted...
Why, the people who think their own job is worth $15 an hour of course.


It'd be pretty embarrassing and inconsistent if TC and ZeldaMutant work in some useless and poisonous industry like fast food, tbqh.
It used to make perfect sense but now everyone is getting sick for any type of reason.
Annihilated posted...
LMAO. Middle class jobs who fuel spending for businesses and companies of all sizes are "harming society" because reasons.


And a compensatory increase in income in people actually involved in patient care or hospital affairs wouldn't fuel proportionate spending?

I'll get on my soap box here and say that nurses, doctors, technicians, pharmacists, physical therapists, etc are a bit more important than some paper pusher in a company literally doing nothing else but leeching as much money from the healthcare industry and away from patients and healthcare professionals as possible.

They're drains. Let some of them take over the administrative ends in hospitals and clinics, but the rest, I'm not going to justify keeping jobs for the marginal economic benefit (when there are also economic downsides on the other side of that coin, and realistically you aren't any better at predicting the net effect of this either).
"He has two neurons held together by a spirochete."
(edited 1 week ago)quote
Ban all 3rd-party payers, except for catastrophic coverage and charity hospitals.
Costs will collapse immediately.
Annihilated 1 week ago#14
Soviet_Poland posted...
Annihilated posted...
LMAO. Middle class jobs who fuel spending for businesses and companies of all sizes are "harming society" because reasons.


And a compensatory increase in income in people actually involved in patient care or hospital affairs wouldn't fuel proportionate spending?

I'll get on my soap box here and say that nurses, doctors, technicians, pharmacists, physical therapists, etc are a bit more important than some paper pusher in a company literally doing nothing else but leeching as much money from the healthcare industry and away from patients and healthcare professionals.

They're drains. Let some of them take over the administrative ends in hospitals and clinics, but the rest, I'm not going to justify keeping jobs for the marginal economic benefit (when there are also economic downsides on the other side of that coin, and realistically you aren't any better at predicting the net effect of this either).


The damage to the overall economy would be so great, healthcare in general would almost be pointless anyway.
Soviet_Poland posted...
Annihilated posted...
LMAO. Middle class jobs who fuel spending for businesses and companies of all sizes are "harming society" because reasons.


And a compensatory increase in income in people actually involved in patient care or hospital affairs wouldn't fuel proportionate spending?

I'll get on my soap box here and say that nurses, doctors, technicians, pharmacists, physical therapists, etc are a bit more important than some paper pusher in a company literally doing nothing else but leeching as much money from the healthcare industry and away from patients and healthcare professionals.

They're drains. Let some of them take over the administrative ends in hospitals and clinics, but the rest, I'm not going to justify keeping jobs for the marginal economic benefit (when there are also economic downsides on the other side of that coin, and realistically you aren't any better at predicting the net effect of this either).


Don't underestimate how much doctors overbill.
Questionmarktarius posted...
Ban all 3rd-party payers, except for catastrophic coverage and charity hospitals.
Costs will collapse immediately.


And so will the economy. Some of the biggest companies are in the health insurance space. And they do a s*** ton of work in that space. Despite the bad reputation health insurance companies get, they're actually doing solid work.
Annihilated posted...
The damage to the overall economy would be so great, healthcare in general would almost be pointless anyway.


And are you on the budgetary committee privy to determining an economic forecasting on this issue? Did you get your Masters in Business Administration and have experience in the health insurance industry, perhaps as a CFO?
"He has two neurons held together by a spirochete."
Transcendentia posted...
Despite the bad reputation health insurance companies get, they're actually doing solid work.

I haven't made an attempt at a bad analogy for awhile, so here's a new one.

Let's say you went into a burger place for a cheeseburger that someone said would be the perfect cheeseburger for you, and were told it costs $185. You'd be sensible to walk out and look for a cheaper cheeseburger.

Now, let's say you were in some sort of free cheeseburger club,and went into the same place. You'd be pretty damn pissed if the club refused to pay for that cheeseburger, maybe even to the point of accusing the club of starving you.
(edited 1 week ago)quote
Just wondering what percentage of taxes you guys pay in the States. 

I pay 5% GST and 6% PST, so all my new purchases are taxed 11% overall. That pays for Universal Health Care in my neck of Canada .
It's art! YOU DON'T NEED PANTS! - Chris Jericho
http://imgur.com/a/1zdpk
(edited 1 week ago)quote
booboy 1 week ago#20
I've seen a line item large size hospital bill.

When they charge $30 for one Tylenol pill that you can buy at any pharmacy for a sane cost and $150 for a teddy bear I have seen on the shelf at Wal Mart, down to matching UPC numbers, insurance companies aren't the cause of the cancer that's health care, they're just a symptomatic tumor.
There is no problem that can't be solved by applying more yuri to it.
In Torque We Trust
Health insurance should be catastrophic only. The fact that we need it for basic care is really backward
booboy posted...
When they charge $30 for one Tylenol

Because, they have to cover the costs of all deadbeats in the emergency room.

...insurance pays for teddy bears?
Sales tax is about 10% here, and all we got is a stupid train to nowhere.
Transcendentia posted...
Don't underestimate how much doctors overbill.


First off, doctors don't really set prices. Secondly, medical billing is artificially increased as a function of insurance companies denying claims and delaying reimbursement as much as possible for their own profits. So if they reimburse 70% of what the services are actually worth (sake of argument), you bill accordingly higher in order to meet at the amount that the services are actually worth. It's a round-about way of doing it, but a reality of healthcare with insurance companies.

Also it varies between private practice offices, which is a more 1:1 interaction between a doctor's office and billing staff and the insurance company. "Overbilling" as you put it is considered fraud and is a criminal offense. Doctors do go to prison for this and lose their medical license. 

Insurance companies have enough influence as well such that doctors can't side step the insurance company and negotiate the prices with the patient themselves. If you accept insurance, it's contractual that you won't do cash pay visits with insured patients. You're either all cash pay (a previously non-viable model, although some primary care offices are trying it, and it has been historically possible in psychiatry) or you take insurance and your salary is virtually all paid to you by the insurance company.

Hospitals are a different beast in that they often get put on the hook to pay for services the patient was either denied, or did not have insurance and can't pay, and these services are often much more expensive. When 10-20% of your "customers" don't pay, the hospital can't stay open. It shifts all those costs onto the insured pool, so other people's insurance is more expensive when other people don't pay. This is what Obamacare tried to alleviate, but it's a bit too convoluted of a system to have a layperson follow, let alone truly appreciate the minutiae.
"He has two neurons held together by a spirochete."
Soviet_Poland posted...
First off, doctors don't really set prices.

If insurance is going to pay up to $1350 for a MRI, you better damn well believe that a hospital is going to charge exactly $1350.
(edited 1 week ago)quote
Paper_Okami 1 week ago#26
solosnake posted...
but who am I kidding, we live in a capitalist society


James Cromwell talking real s***

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/14/extended_interview_with_actor_james_cromwell

Capitalism is a cancer.
"Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman
"Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie
Paper_Okami posted...
solosnake posted...
but who am I kidding, we live in a capitalist society


James Cromwell talking real s***

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/14/extended_interview_with_actor_james_cromwell

Capitalism is a cancer.

RebelElite791 posted...
solosnake posted...
but who am I kidding, we live in a capitalist society

So do countries with universal healthcare yet they make it work.


*thinking emoji*
Paper_Okami posted...
solosnake posted...
but who am I kidding, we live in a capitalist society


James Cromwell talking real s***

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/14/extended_interview_with_actor_james_cromwell

Capitalism is a cancer.

Meanwhile, thanks to capitalism:
http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celeb/actors/james-cromwell-net-worth/
Questionmarktarius posted...
Paper_Okami posted...
solosnake posted...
but who am I kidding, we live in a capitalist society


James Cromwell talking real s***

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/14/extended_interview_with_actor_james_cromwell

Capitalism is a cancer.

Meanwhile, thanks to capitalism:
http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celeb/actors/james-cromwell-net-worth/

lol
Questionmarktarius posted...
If insurance is going to pay you up to $1350 for a MRI, you better damn well believe that a hospital is going to charge exactly $1350.


That's not really how it works though.

For one reason or another, the *actual cost* of a service, like an MRI, is not really standardized. Since these prices aren't advertised, insurance companies basically play a game of trying to maximize how much they get paid by patients (their customers) and minimizing how much they pay out of benefits.

Since hospitals don't know how much to charge, an insurance company might offer $200 reimbursement to the hospital on that MRI. Down the street a few miles at the next hospital, the bill is higher, and the insurance company is willing to shell out $650.

The continued squirming from insurance leads to them getting patients on technicalities. You didn't meet this criteria, the hospital was out of network, etc, etc. They deny reimbusement. Patient gets slapped with the bill. The hospital *never* intended the patient to pay the $650 and virtually always works with a patient who then says they need to pay out of pocket and can't afford it. The hospital is better off getting something rather than nothing, but its much lower than the insurance company's reimbursement.

Now the hospital is running out of money, so they bill higher in subsequent services to make up the difference to stay afloat. Again, since no one knows the true cost of an MRI, it's okay, and this other insurance company ends up covering it. But they also deny a different patient's claim somewhere else--again, to maximize their own profits.

The end result after a lot of this cat and mouse is the insurance company continues to squeeze more and more money away from both patients and healthcare professionals. Patients have no money to pay for bills they expected to be covered because they're paying premiums. Hospitals can't stay open without continually raising the cost. And insurance continues to siphon the gasoline from the car until it runs empty and it all crashes.
"He has two neurons held together by a spirochete."
#31
(message deleted)
Paper_Okami 1 week ago#32
Questionmarktarius posted...
Paper_Okami posted...
solosnake posted...
but who am I kidding, we live in a capitalist society


James Cromwell talking real s***

https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/14/extended_interview_with_actor_james_cromwell

Capitalism is a cancer.

Meanwhile, thanks to capitalism:
http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celeb/actors/james-cromwell-net-worth/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
"Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism"- Emma Goldman
"Wimmy Wham Wham Wozzle!" -Slurms MacKenzie
Soviet_Poland posted...
[stuff]

Thus, we need to get over the idea that healthcare gets to be pretty much the only product or service that doesn't state the price upfront.

Paper_Okami posted...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

You're damn straight it is.
(edited 1 week ago)quote
The mindset needs to change because universal healthcare would dramatically improve the quality of life for the future. Things will get messed up before they get better (like jobs lost), but in the end it needs to be done.
We're a forest of lives, but we grow tall and wide.
We'll never be cut down.
MonkeyBones23 posted...
The mindset needs to change because universal healthcare would dramatically improve the quality of life for the future. Things will get messed up before they get better (like jobs lost), but in the end it needs to be done.

Why not a "VA for everyone" instead of a "medicare for everyone", along with a parallel private system?
Seems like that would avoid a Charlie Gard situation
MonkeyBones23 posted...
The mindset needs to change because universal healthcare would dramatically improve the quality of life for the future. Things will get messed up before they get better (like jobs lost), but in the end it needs to be done.

How people don't f***ing see this is beyond me
walk like thunder
JohnLennon6 1 week ago#37
America has like ten times the people of other countries with UHC.
He has good daygame
- MasterOfMissions
JohnLennon6 posted...
America has like ten times the people of other countries with UHC.

That's pretty much irrelevant, though.
JohnLennon6 posted...
America has like ten times the people of other countries with UHC.

Hilariously incorrect.
JohnLennon6 posted...
America has like ten times the people of other countries with UHC.


And still has a GDP in the Top 20, so don't feed anyone that s*** like "we can't afford it"

You also spend a f*** ton more on the army than any other country per capita.
It's art! YOU DON'T NEED PANTS! - Chris Jericho
http://imgur.com/a/1zdpk
JohnLennon6 1 week ago#41
Questionmarktarius posted...
JohnLennon6 posted...
America has like ten times the people of other countries with UHC.

That's pretty much irrelevant, though.

How so? It would never work here.
He has good daygame
- MasterOfMissions
JohnLennon6 posted...
Questionmarktarius posted...
JohnLennon6 posted...
America has like ten times the people of other countries with UHC.

That's pretty much irrelevant, though.

How so? It would never work here.

We're already spending vastly more than anyone else on healthcare, total and per-capita.

The only reason it wouldn't work is because we're an nation of greedy a******s who would either fight it to the end, or defraud the s*** out of it when it happens. Possibly both.
(edited 1 week ago)quote
JohnLennon6 1 week ago#43
Questionmarktarius posted...
JohnLennon6 posted...
Questionmarktarius posted...
JohnLennon6 posted...
America has like ten times the people of other countries with UHC.

That's pretty much irrelevant, though.

How so? It would never work here.

The only reason it wouldn't work is because we're an nation of greedy a******s who would either fight it to the end, or defraud the s*** out of it when it happens. Possibly both.

Exactly.
He has good daygame
- MasterOfMissions
No.

There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.
I don't believe health should be a commodity. Capitalism is a good thing but something's shouldn't be controlled by it.
when you stub your toes it's the SJWs fualt.
do_ob_tpkillr posted...
No.

There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.


The Social Contract.
It's art! YOU DON'T NEED PANTS! - Chris Jericho
http://imgur.com/a/1zdpk
do_ob_tpkillr posted...
No.

There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.

You already do.
You've fought the strongest, the second strongest, the fourth strongest, and the weakest master! Now you see the true advantage of being third strongest master!
JohnLennon6 1 week ago#48
3rd_Best_Master posted...
do_ob_tpkillr posted...
No.

There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.

You already do.

I don't see it on my paycheck.
He has good daygame
- MasterOfMissions
JohnLennon6 posted...
3rd_Best_Master posted...
do_ob_tpkillr posted...
No.

There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.

You already do.

I don't see it on my paycheck.

FICA
MonkeyBones23 posted...
The mindset needs to change because universal healthcare would dramatically improve the quality of life for the future. Things will get messed up before they get better (like jobs lost), but in the end it needs to be done.


Funny how leftists stop caring about "muh goodpaying jerbs!!!111" when it suits them
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    AssultTank 1 week ago#51
    JohnLennon6 posted...
    3rd_Best_Master posted...
    do_ob_tpkillr posted...
    No.

    There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.

    You already do.

    I don't see it on my paycheck.

    Medicare and the federal tax portions both partially go towards healthcare for others.
    https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/20- Monthly Competitions with Karma or Steam prizes!
    RIP Mith. You were a good friend and will be missed. ;-;
    JohnLennon6 posted...
    3rd_Best_Master posted...
    do_ob_tpkillr posted...
    No.

    There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.

    You already do.

    I don't see it on my paycheck.

    That's cause you don't have a job.
    You've fought the strongest, the second strongest, the fourth strongest, and the weakest master! Now you see the true advantage of being third strongest master!
    Transcendentia posted...
    MonkeyBones23 posted...
    The mindset needs to change because universal healthcare would dramatically improve the quality of life for the future. Things will get messed up before they get better (like jobs lost), but in the end it needs to be done.


    Funny how leftists stop caring about "muh goodpaying jerbs!!!111" when it suits them

    Uh that's the right. They are the "they stole our jobs" people while killing other jobs.
    when you stub your toes it's the SJWs fualt.
    It's kinda like people who say that going to renewable energy would "cost jobs", when really they are replacing jobs that WILL die out eventually (oil fields and coal don't come back) and are already dying out (all these jobs are becoming automated ANYWAYS) with new ones that will always need to be staffed.
    It's art! YOU DON'T NEED PANTS! - Chris Jericho
    http://imgur.com/a/1zdpk
    Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...
    It's kinda like people who say that going to renewable energy would "cost jobs", when really they are replacing jobs that WILL die out eventually (oil fields and coal don't come back) and are already dying out (all these jobs are becoming automated ANYWAYS) with new ones that will always need to be staffed.

    It does cause a loss of low-skilled labor jobs, though. Can't exactly mine wind, and windmill farms and dams (and nuclear) are staffed heavily by engineers.
    GiftedACIII 6 days ago#56
    3rd_Best_Master posted...
    JohnLennon6 posted...
    3rd_Best_Master posted...
    do_ob_tpkillr posted...
    No.

    There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.

    You already do.

    I don't see it on my paycheck.

    That's cause you don't have a job.

    rekt
    </topic>
    JohnLennon6 5 days ago#57
    GiftedACIII posted...
    3rd_Best_Master posted...
    JohnLennon6 posted...
    3rd_Best_Master posted...
    do_ob_tpkillr posted...
    No.

    There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.

    You already do.

    I don't see it on my paycheck.

    That's cause you don't have a job.

    rekt

    Did you bump it just to leave that lame reply?

    I do have a job and I will post my paycheck to prove it.
    He has good daygame
    - MasterOfMissions
    #58
    (message deleted)
    JohnLennon6 5 days ago#59
    Are you willing to post a pic of your paycheck?
    He has good daygame
    - MasterOfMissions
    JohnLennon6 5 days ago#60
    Lmfao, he deleted his post.
    He has good daygame
    - MasterOfMissions
    JohnLennon6 4 days ago#61
    @3rd_Best_Master
    He has good daygame
    - MasterOfMissions
    JohnLennon6 4 days ago#62
    JohnLennon6 posted...
    GiftedACIII posted...
    3rd_Best_Master posted...
    JohnLennon6 posted...
    3rd_Best_Master posted...
    do_ob_tpkillr posted...
    No.

    There's absolutely no reason why I have to pay for your medicine through tax.

    You already do.

    I don't see it on my paycheck.

    That's cause you don't have a job.

    rekt

    I do have a job and I will post my paycheck to prove it.
    He has good daygame
    - MasterOfMissions
    @SSJ-JohnLennon
    It's been 4 days
    Cherish me
    wah_wah_wah 2 days ago#64
    lol at the point "But without private insurance, we'd lose jobs!" It is sort of like bemoaning the closing of a concentration camp for putting good hard working guards out of work. The private insurance industry is killing us and making us sick with its profit-incentives and inefficiency.
    Samurontai 2 days ago#65
    Holy s***, he posted 4 times in a row lol

    Must have really rustled his jimmies
    WesternMedia 14 hours ago#66
    Samurontai posted...
    Holy s***, he posted 4 times in a row lol

    Must have really rustled his jimmies

    Not only that, he refuses to show his paycheck despite bumping it so many times talking about it anyway
    Cherish me
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