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Showing posts with label confederate statues. Show all posts
Showing posts with label confederate statues. Show all posts

September 15, 2017

Protesters cover Thomas Jefferson statue in black tarp

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  3. Protesters cover Thomas Jefferson statue in black tarp
Mal_Fet 2 days ago#1
Remember when the left said Trump was being ridiculous for saying "What's next, removing statues of Thomas Jefferson?"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/09/13/thomas-jefferson-statue-at-u-va-shrouded-in-black/?utm_term=.ae40873b3eed

About 100 people gathered for the protest Tuesday night, according to the Daily Progress. They covered the statue of the university’s founder, and signs reading “racist” and “rapist” were placed on it.

Speakers at the rally pressed the university to comply with demands made by the Black Student Alliance last month that included removing Confederate plaques from the university’s rotunda and banning white supremacist groups from campus, the Daily Progress reported.


nQBd0os
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
Mal_Fet 2 days ago#2
Bump
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?
sigless user is me or am I?
darkphoenix181 posted...
do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?

The question isn't whether he was or not, but whether it actually matters considering his time period and if it was so severe that it drowns out his accomplishments (it doesn't).
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Kyurem-BW 2 days ago#5
@darkphoenix181 posted...
do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?

do you believe it is right to vandalize the statue of a founding father of the United states? one of the 56 who signed the declaration of independence?
dont know why I even have one of these
Morons.
GT unpleasant milk
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Zikten 2 days ago#7
I oppose anything done by BLM. f*** those racists
SavenForever 2 days ago#8
darkphoenix181 posted...
do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?


Keep dodging.
Buzz Killjoy 2 days ago#9
If you honestly feel this way about Thomas Jefferson you should not even be a student at UVA. 

They shove so much Jefferson history in your face, it would be impossible to not get triggered.
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
davyheinz 2 days ago#10
They're just doing this to troll you, Mal.
Currently playing: Breath of the Wild, Xenoblade Chronicles, Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon, Super Metroid, F-Zero GX, No More Heroes
A_Good_Boy 2 days ago#11
Kyurem-BW posted...
@darkphoenix181 posted...
do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?

do you believe it is right to vandalize the statue of a founding father of the United states? one of the 56 who signed the declaration of independence?

Sure thing. It's just a statue. Not like they're digging up his corpse to desecrate it.
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The Admiral 2 days ago#12
Hope these degenerates are expelled.

Also, I'm assuming these students were too stupid to realize who founded the college they were applying to. Not sure why you'd willingly attend UVA if this was actually an issue.
- The Admiral
Esrac 2 days ago#13
A_Good_Boy posted...
Kyurem-BW posted...
@darkphoenix181 posted...
do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?

do you believe it is right to vandalize the statue of a founding father of the United states? one of the 56 who signed the declaration of independence?

Sure thing. It's just a statue. Not like they're digging up his corpse to desecrate it.


Yet.
uwnim 2 days ago#14
Why would they be protesting him?
I want a pet Lavos Spawn.
[Order of the Cetaceans: Phocoena dioptrica]
peaceful protest isn't degeneracy, the vandalism is arguable if it causes some cost of repair or physically alters the artwork/property
article made it seem like there were just signs placed near it but I skimmed

I think this protest and sentiment is mostly misplaced though
And in an infinite regress, tell me, why is the pain of birth lighter borne than the pain of death?
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__aCEr__ 2 days ago#16
Yeah if you don't like Jefferson, UVA is the last place you should have applied to.
Capn Circus 2 days ago#17
Once again Trump turns out to be right. 

Of course they'll go after other statues. If we continue to pacify this behavior, our entire constitution and principles of our nation will be dismantled because "they were racist".
"I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
Newhopes 2 days ago#18
ISIS strikes again.
LordRazziel 2 days ago#19
The Admiral posted...
Hope these degenerates are expelled.

Also, I'm assuming these students were too stupid to realize who founded the college they were applying to. Not sure why you'd willingly attend UVA if this was actually an issue.

Don't you constantly say people need to not use their emotions?
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AlephZero 2 days ago#20
uwnim posted...
Why would they be protesting him?

he was a white cis male
"There is value in segregation." - qwertyman2002
01001100 01010101 01000101 00100000 00110100 00110000 00110010
A_Good_Boy 2 days ago#21
LordRazziel posted...
The Admiral posted...
Hope these degenerates are expelled. 

Also, I'm assuming these students were too stupid to realize who founded the college they were applying to. Not sure why you'd willingly attend UVA if this was actually an issue.

Don't you constantly say people need to not use their emotions?

Addy's like CEs Donald Trump. Always criticizing others for behaviors or actions he gleefully does himself.
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Howl 2 days ago#22
Capn Circus posted...
Once again Trump turns out to be right. 

Of course they'll go after other statues. If we continue to pacify this behavior, our entire constitution and principles of our nation will be dismantled because "they were racist".


People are already saying the United States was only ever great for white men.
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Newhopes 2 days ago#23
Howl posted...
Capn Circus posted...
Once again Trump turns out to be right. 

Of course they'll go after other statues. If we continue to pacify this behavior, our entire constitution and principles of our nation will be dismantled because "they were racist".


People are already saying the United States was only ever great for white men.


Why don't they just leave then nobody will stop them?
Not surprised. Social liberalism is the disease that's slowly killing this great country.

All those idiots need to be expelled.
Sig under construction!
The people on the left who want to take down Thomas Jefferson statues are the silly ones. When it comes to the confederate statues they are only up to celebrate slavery and a lost way to scare blacks and other minorities. With Thomas Jefferson his statues have nothing to do with the fact he owned slaves and everything to do with what he did for america. You don't have to like everything someone believes in or did to realize he also did a lot of good.
No sig.
weapon_d00d816 posted...
whether it actually matters considering his time period


Slavery has always been terrible and slave owners have always been terrible people. We're not talking about grandma's private racism here.

Thomas Jefferson did great things for this country, but he was also a racist P.O.S. (like a lot of people back then). It's not hard to see why certain groups don't like seeing him honored while ignoring all the bad.
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GreatEvilEmpire posted...
Not surprised. Social liberalism is the disease that's slowly killing this great country.

All those idiots need to be expelled.

Because these people represent all on the left right?
No sig.
Zikten 2 days ago#28
QwelzaarKane posted...
It's not hard to see why certain groups don't like seeing him honored while ignoring all the bad.

because if you do that, you have to attack almost all historical people. very few people from the past lived up to 21st century moral standards. you can find dirt on almost anyone.
A_Good_Boy 2 days ago#29
Zikten posted...
QwelzaarKane posted...
It's not hard to see why certain groups don't like seeing him honored while ignoring all the bad.

because if you do that, you have to attack almost all historical people. very few people from the past lived up to 21st century moral standards. you can find dirt on almost anyone.

Meh
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Howl 2 days ago#30
Zikten posted...
QwelzaarKane posted...
It's not hard to see why certain groups don't like seeing him honored while ignoring all the bad.

because if you do that, you have to attack almost all historical people. very few people from the past lived up to 21st century moral standards. you can find dirt on almost anyone.


No one, even today lives up to 21st century moral standards.
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Zikten 2 days ago#31
A_Good_Boy posted...
Meh

so your ok with just attacking all of history? and never honoring anyone ever again?
creativerealms posted...

Because these people represent all on the left right?


Social liberalism represents the extreme left, not all of the left. That's why I specifically refer to social liberals and not all liberals.
Sig under construction!
Kyurem-BW 2 days ago#33
@QwelzaarKane 
so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?
dont know why I even have one of these
Mal_Fet 2 days ago#34
Kyurem-BW posted...
@QwelzaarKane 
so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?

Give it time. The left always eats itself.
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
boxington 2 days ago#35
Kyurem-BW posted...
@QwelzaarKane 
so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?

I mean, as far as we know, MLK Jr. didn't act on his homophobia. 

Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, though.
b-bb-box
Zikten 2 days ago#36
boxington posted...
I mean, as far as we know, MLK Jr. didn't act on his homophobia.

Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, though.

because it was common and encouraged. if it had been common and encouraged in the 60's to enslave gay people, MLK would have done it
Mal_Fet 2 days ago#37
boxington posted...
Kyurem-BW posted...
@QwelzaarKane 
so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?

I mean, as far as we know, MLK Jr. didn't act on his homophobia. 

Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, though.

Gandhi acted on his racism against Blacks in India. Shall we deface all likenesses of him?
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
Asherlee10 2 days ago#38
creativerealms posted...
The people on the left who want to take down Thomas Jefferson statues are the silly ones. When it comes to the confederate statues they are only up to celebrate slavery and a lost way to scare blacks and other minorities. With Thomas Jefferson his statues have nothing to do with the fact he owned slaves and everything to do with what he did for america. You don't have to like everything someone believes in or did to realize he also did a lot of good.


Agreed.
"Opinions should be a result of a thought, not a substitute for it."
boxington 2 days ago#39
I'm just saying that you can't always help how you feel, but you can control what you do and say. 

people can do what they want to their monuments (through I wouldn't support hard work being damaged like that), but the comparisons aren't fair. 

because it was common and encouraged. if it had been common and encouraged in the 60's to enslave gay people, MLK would have done it


lol
b-bb-box
(edited 2 days ago)reportquote
nativengine 2 days ago#40
Give f***ers an inch, they take a mile.
Zikten 2 days ago#41
yea Gandhi HATED black people. probably even more than Jefferson did. you should see some of the stuff he said about them
A_Good_Boy 2 days ago#42
Mal_Fet posted...
boxington posted...
Kyurem-BW posted... 
@QwelzaarKane 
so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?

I mean, as far as we know, MLK Jr. didn't act on his homophobia. 

Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, though.

Gandhi acted on his racism against Blacks in India. Shall we deface all likenesses of him?

Do you believe that Africans are obligated to view him in the same light that you do?
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i sure hope Mal_Fet is smart enough to realize that this was a small group of people and does not represent "the left"
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Zikten 2 days ago#44
Asherlee10 2 days ago#45
Also, if they wanted the statue gone, be a grown up and take the appropriate actions to petition its removal. Don't be an immature idiot and vandalize property like this.
"Opinions should be a result of a thought, not a substitute for it."
Mal_Fet 2 days ago#46
A_Good_Boy posted...
Do you believe that Africans are obligated to view him in the same light that you do?

No of course not. 

But since when has that prevented suburban leftists from getting violently offended on others' behalf?
Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-George Orwell
all I got to do is ask an innocent question and people start foaming at the mouth
sigless user is me or am I?
Esrac 2 days ago#48
Zikten posted...
yea Gandhi HATED black people. probably even more than Jefferson did. you should see some of the stuff he said about them


Jefferson didn't even hate black people. Yeah, he was racist. He absolutely thought blacks were innately inferior to whites, but he didn't necessarily hate them. As I recall, he had actually proposed a plan to gradually free the slaves, train them in useful trades, and deport them. The deportation thing was mostly because he figured there would be too much bitterness and resentment between whites and blacks over slavery for them to live together peacefully.
Zeeak4444 2 days ago#49
A_Good_Boy posted...
Mal_Fet posted...
boxington posted...
Kyurem-BW posted... 
@QwelzaarKane 
so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?

I mean, as far as we know, MLK Jr. didn't act on his homophobia. 

Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, though.

Gandhi acted on his racism against Blacks in India. Shall we deface all likenesses of him?

Do you believe that Africans are obligated to view him in the same light that you do?


Do you think anyone's obligated to view Jefferson in the same light that you do @A_Good_Boy?
Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X
Giant_Aspirin posted...
i sure hope Mal_Fet is smart enough

Nope. No he is not.
  1. Boards
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  3. Protesters cover Thomas Jefferson statue in black tarp
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    3. Protesters cover Thomas Jefferson statue in black tarp
    A_Good_Boy 2 days ago#51
    Zeeak4444 posted...
    A_Good_Boy posted...
    Mal_Fet posted... 
    boxington posted... 
    Kyurem-BW posted... 
    @QwelzaarKane 
    so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?

    I mean, as far as we know, MLK Jr. didn't act on his homophobia. 

    Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, though.

    Gandhi acted on his racism against Blacks in India. Shall we deface all likenesses of him?

    Do you believe that Africans are obligated to view him in the same light that you do?


    Do you think anyone's obligated to view Jefferson in the same light that you do @A_Good_Boy?

    No, I don't. And that's the reason why this topic is even about this event in the first place. How'd you miss that context, bud?
    Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2
    Zeeak4444 2 days ago#52
    A_Good_Boy posted...
    Zeeak4444 posted...
    A_Good_Boy posted...
    Mal_Fet posted... 
    boxington posted... 
    Kyurem-BW posted... 
    @QwelzaarKane 
    so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?

    I mean, as far as we know, MLK Jr. didn't act on his homophobia. 

    Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, though.

    Gandhi acted on his racism against Blacks in India. Shall we deface all likenesses of him?

    Do you believe that Africans are obligated to view him in the same light that you do?


    Do you think anyone's obligated to view Jefferson in the same light that you do @A_Good_Boy?

    No, I don't. And that's the reason why this topic is even about this event in the first place. How'd you miss that context, bud?


    I didn't, I just asked if you stayed consistent with your position. Don't get all bent out of shape about it, not like I called you a liar.
    Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X
    NadYobWoc 2 days ago#53
    Capn Circus posted...
    Once again Trump turns out to be right. 

    Of course they'll go after other statues. If we continue to pacify this behavior, our entire constitution and principles of our nation will be dismantled because "they were racist".

    lmao this nerd doesn't know what pacify means.
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    Newhopes 2 days ago#54
    NadYobWoc posted...
    Capn Circus posted...
    Once again Trump turns out to be right. 

    Of course they'll go after other statues. If we continue to pacify this behavior, our entire constitution and principles of our nation will be dismantled because "they were racist".

    lmao this nerd doesn't know what pacify means.


    Apparently you don't know what pacify means LOL.
    Callixtus 2 days ago#55
    Shameful
    Liberal Arrogance:Academics are overwhelmingly liberal because the nature of the job, seeking information for the good of humanity, self selects liberals--COVxy
    darkphoenix181 posted...
    do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?


    Do you think the native Americans weren't racist either?
    Twin3Turbo 2 days ago#58
    Kyurem-BW posted...
    @QwelzaarKane 
    so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?

    Don't get me wrong, it's not hard to believe that he probably was homophobic to some degree due to a lot of different reasons (deeply religious, pastor, time period, etc), but thought that it was never really proven if he was anti-gay or not? The most we got is an editorial or something like that where a writer asking for helped mentioned they had homosexual thoughts/feelings and MLK wrote back saying that it wasn't uncommon. Is there really anything out there where he really shared an anti-gay sentiment?
    Kyurem-BW 2 days ago#59
    https://swap.stanford.edu/20141218230500/http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/kingweb/publications/papers/vol4/580100-000-Advice_For_Living.htm

    Question: My problem is different from the ones most people have. I am a boy, but I feel about boys the way I ought to feel about girls. I don't want my parents to know about me. What can I do? Is there any place where I can go for help?

    Answer: Your problem is not at all an uncommon one. However, it does require careful attention. The type of feeling that you have toward boys is probably not an innate tendency, but something that has been culturally acquired. Your reasons for adopting this habit have now been consciously suppressed or unconsciously repressed. Therefore, it is necessary to deal with this problem by getting back to some of the experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. In order to do this I would suggest that you see a good psychiatrist who can assist you in bringing to the forefront of conscience all of those experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. You are already on the right road toward a solution, since you honestly recognize the problem and have a desire to solve
    dont know why I even have one of these
    Mal_Fet posted...
    Kyurem-BW posted...
    @QwelzaarKane 
    so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?

    Give it time. The left always eats itself.

    You do think the idiots represent the left as a whole. Wow. You think all of us are gun hating vegan hippys who love Muslims and want them to take over huh?
    No sig.
    (edited 2 days ago)reportquote
    gmanthebest 2 days ago#61
    Tag
    What do I feel when I shoot an enemy? Recoil.
    Esrac posted...
    Zikten posted...
    yea Gandhi HATED black people. probably even more than Jefferson did. you should see some of the stuff he said about them


    Jefferson didn't even hate black people. Yeah, he was racist. He absolutely thought blacks were innately inferior to whites, but he didn't necessarily hate them. As I recall, he had actually proposed a plan to gradually free the slaves, train them in useful trades, and deport them. The deportation thing was mostly because he figured there would be too much bitterness and resentment between whites and blacks over slavery for them to live together peacefully.
    I heard Jefferson actually never bought a single slave, he inherited them from his wife's father and knew if he just let them go they would have all just been captured and put into slavery again, and he wanted to marry Elizabeth hemming but promised his wife on her deathbed he would never marry again
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    The Admiral 2 days ago#63
    Kyurem-BW posted...
    https://swap.stanford.edu/20141218230500/http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/kingweb/publications/papers/vol4/580100-000-Advice_For_Living.htm

    Question: My problem is different from the ones most people have. I am a boy, but I feel about boys the way I ought to feel about girls. I don't want my parents to know about me. What can I do? Is there any place where I can go for help?

    Answer: Your problem is not at all an uncommon one. However, it does require careful attention. The type of feeling that you have toward boys is probably not an innate tendency, but something that has been culturally acquired. Your reasons for adopting this habit have now been consciously suppressed or unconsciously repressed. Therefore, it is necessary to deal with this problem by getting back to some of the experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. In order to do this I would suggest that you see a good psychiatrist who can assist you in bringing to the forefront of conscience all of those experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. You are already on the right road toward a solution, since you honestly recognize the problem and have a desire to solve


    So MLK said homosexuality is a mental disorder. Hadn't seen this quote before.
    - The Admiral
    Kyurem-BW posted...
    @QwelzaarKane 
    so if he was a pos for being racist when that was acceptable what does that make MLK Jr for being anti-gay back when that was acceptable?


    It makes him homophobic. What actions of his were anti-gay, though? Unless he was actively working against them you have no point. Owning and raping slaves goes a bit beyond simple racism imo.

    Zikten posted...
    QwelzaarKane posted...
    It's not hard to see why certain groups don't like seeing him honored while ignoring all the bad.

    because if you do that, you have to attack almost all historical people. very few people from the past lived up to 21st century moral standards. you can find dirt on almost anyone.


    Being honest about Jefferson isn't attacking him.

    It's funny how people (not referring to anyone ITT specifically) whine about erasing history with these statues but refuse to acknowledge that this country was built by some terrible people.

    I'm indifferent on removing this statue, but we shouldn't be glossing over how s***ty most early Americans were.
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    Mal_Fet 1 day ago#65
    creativerealms posted...
    You do think the idiots represent the left as a whole. Wow.

    Observe how the leftist media talks about Berniebros. 

    There ya go.
    Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    -George Orwell
    #66
    (message deleted)
    HylianFox 1 day ago#67
    I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals FUH-LAMING! - Homer Simpson
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    lilORANG 1 day ago#68
    Jefferson had sick af rhymes


    i don't know how people could oppose this man.
    Giant_Aspirin posted...
    i sure hope Mal_Fet is smart enough to realize that this was a small group of people and does not represent "the left"


    These small groups of people seem to be continuously popping up in virtually every state---and quite often, too.

    There's also people in this topic defending it, too.
    "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    A_Good_Boy 1 day ago#70
    Capn Circus posted...
    Giant_Aspirin posted...
    i sure hope Mal_Fet is smart enough to realize that this was a small group of people and does not represent "the left"


    These small groups of people seem to be continuously popping up in virtually every state---and quite often, too.

    Just like how small groups of offenders continuously seem to pop up in police stations.
    Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2
    A_Good_Boy posted...
    Capn Circus posted...
    Giant_Aspirin posted...
    i sure hope Mal_Fet is smart enough to realize that this was a small group of people and does not represent "the left"


    These small groups of people seem to be continuously popping up in virtually every state---and quite often, too.

    Just like how small groups of offenders continuously seem to pop up in police stations.


    I don't think I understand your reference.
    "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
    QwelzaarKane posted...
    refuse to acknowledge that this country was built by some terrible people.

    I'm indifferent on removing this statue, but we shouldn't be glossing over how s***ty most early Americans were.


    They weren't terrible people by any stretch of the imagination. They were our founding fathers who led the American revolution freeing us from Britain and contributed heavily to establishing our nation. The people of our past built and designed this nation out of absolutely nothing. 

    They practiced things no longer acceptable in today's society, but they weren't terrible people. I refuse to go along with the notion common practices of the distant past, whatever they may have been, made the people at the time terrible or stupid.
    "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
    Capn Circus posted...
    QwelzaarKane posted...
    refuse to acknowledge that this country was built by some terrible people. 

    I'm indifferent on removing this statue, but we shouldn't be glossing over how s***ty most early Americans were.


    They weren't terrible people by any stretch of the imagination. They were our founding fathers who led the American revolution freeing us from Britain and contributed heavily to establishing our nation. The people of our past built and designed this nation out of absolutely nothing. 

    They practiced things no longer acceptable in today's society, but they weren't terrible people. I refuse to go along with the notion common practices of the distant past, whatever they may have been, made the people at the time terrible or stupid.


    wrong is wrong regardless of the time. legal and right are not the same. YOUR forefathers had s***ty souls and set the tone for the ethnic division we still have. the division that you contribute to in topics every day.

    f*** Jefferson. simple as that.
    Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
    Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
    Good.
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    Mal_Fet 1 day ago#75
    RickyTheBAWSE posted...
    wrong is wrong regardless of the time. legal and right are not the same. YOUR forefathers had s***ty souls and set the tone for the ethnic division we still have. the division that you contribute to in topics every day.

    f*** Jefferson. simple as that.

    If you hold everyone to 21st century standards of morality, no heroes exist. You are probably a horrible person to someone 50 years from now.
    Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    -George Orwell
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    Endofall 1 day ago#76
    Mal_Fet posted...
    RickyTheBAWSE posted...
    wrong is wrong regardless of the time. legal and right are not the same. YOUR forefathers had s***ty souls and set the tone for the ethnic division we still have. the division that you contribute to in topics every day.

    f*** Jefferson. simple as that.

    If you hold everyone to the standard of 21st century standards of morality, no heroes exist. You are probably a horrible person to someone 50 years from now.


    Except guys like John Adams fought to keep slavery out of the constitution back when the country was founded.
    yankees ws chizzamps
    RickyTheBAWSE posted...
    Capn Circus posted...
    QwelzaarKane posted...
    refuse to acknowledge that this country was built by some terrible people. 

    I'm indifferent on removing this statue, but we shouldn't be glossing over how s***ty most early Americans were.


    They weren't terrible people by any stretch of the imagination. They were our founding fathers who led the American revolution freeing us from Britain and contributed heavily to establishing our nation. The people of our past built and designed this nation out of absolutely nothing. 

    They practiced things no longer acceptable in today's society, but they weren't terrible people. I refuse to go along with the notion common practices of the distant past, whatever they may have been, made the people at the time terrible or stupid.


    wrong is wrong regardless of the time. legal and right are not the same. YOUR forefathers had s***ty souls and set the tone for the ethnic division we still have. the division that you contribute to in topics every day.

    f*** Jefferson. simple as that.


    There will be a right way of doing things coming into consensus 300 years from now that will make us look stupid, unintelligent, or wrong. But we're not, most of us are doing the best we can with what we know and have to work with. 

    Going by your logic, we need to denounce your ancestors, too. (I'm assuming we don't have the same ones, since you emphasized "YOUR")
    "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    stop

    there were decent human beings back in the 1700s. like john adams. the "well it was a different time!" argument doesn't f***ing work
    yankees ws chizzamps
    Mal_Fet 1 day ago#80
    27_Sandman_40 posted...
    Except guys like John Adams fought to keep slavery out of the constitution back when the country was founded.

    Is slavery the only evil thing people 200 years ago believed in?
    Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    -George Orwell
    Capn Circus posted...
    RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
    Capn Circus posted... 
    QwelzaarKane posted... 
    refuse to acknowledge that this country was built by some terrible people. 

    I'm indifferent on removing this statue, but we shouldn't be glossing over how s***ty most early Americans were.


    They weren't terrible people by any stretch of the imagination. They were our founding fathers who led the American revolution freeing us from Britain and contributed heavily to establishing our nation. The people of our past built and designed this nation out of absolutely nothing. 

    They practiced things no longer acceptable in today's society, but they weren't terrible people. I refuse to go along with the notion common practices of the distant past, whatever they may have been, made the people at the time terrible or stupid.


    wrong is wrong regardless of the time. legal and right are not the same. YOUR forefathers had s***ty souls and set the tone for the ethnic division we still have. the division that you contribute to in topics every day. 

    f*** Jefferson. simple as that.


    There will be a right way of doing things coming into consensus 300 years from now that will make us look stupid, unintelligent, or wrong. But we're not, most of us are doing the best we can with what we know and have to work with. 

    Going by your logic, we need to denounce your ancestors, too. (I'm assuming we don't have the same ones, since you emphasized "YOUR")


    logic escapes your post.

    who is this "us" you speak of? and why are you their spokesperson? if you can't hold yourself accountable for your own words and actions, that's on you. but you're still accountable regardless of how bad you want to be painted as a something different.

    and I said YOUR because you included yourself, but they aren't my forefathers. they didn't intend for people like me to be included in the their American dream. why should I pretend?
    Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
    Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    Mal_Fet posted...
    27_Sandman_40 posted...
    Except guys like John Adams fought to keep slavery out of the constitution back when the country was founded.

    Is slavery the only evil thing people 200 years ago believed in?


    i mean it's a good start if you didn't believe in slavery at that time compared to the rapist (jefferson), the slave owner (washington), and the genocider (jackson)
    yankees ws chizzamps
    Mal_Fet 1 day ago#83
    27_Sandman_40 posted...
    Mal_Fet posted...
    27_Sandman_40 posted...
    Except guys like John Adams fought to keep slavery out of the constitution back when the country was founded.

    Is slavery the only evil thing people 200 years ago believed in?


    i mean it's a good start if you didn't believe in slavery at that time compared to the rapist (jefferson), the slave owner (washington), and the genocider (jackson)

    Lol you already hate Jefferson for the crime of inheriting slaves, is it necessary to throw the dubious and likely untrue rumor of him being a rapist in there too?

    Point is, I will start taking people like you seriously as soon as you start advocating for removing MLK Jr. 's name and likeness from all schools, streets, and statues for his blatant homophobia. Until then, I'll continue writing you off as a hypocrite.
    Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
    -George Orwell
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    Who are people like me? Because I routinely get labeled a Trump supporter and a racist conservative on CE on the daily when I'm neither.

    Because unlike you Mal, I'm an actual libertarian that leans both ways.

    To address your asinine comparison, MLK's homophobia never enslaved or murdered anybody. Not to mention he didn't start a whole f***ing country founded upon it.
    yankees ws chizzamps
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    Twin3Turbo 1 day ago#85
    The Admiral posted...
    Kyurem-BW posted...
    https://swap.stanford.edu/20141218230500/http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/kingweb/publications/papers/vol4/580100-000-Advice_For_Living.htm

    Question: My problem is different from the ones most people have. I am a boy, but I feel about boys the way I ought to feel about girls. I don't want my parents to know about me. What can I do? Is there any place where I can go for help?

    Answer: Your problem is not at all an uncommon one. However, it does require careful attention. The type of feeling that you have toward boys is probably not an innate tendency, but something that has been culturally acquired. Your reasons for adopting this habit have now been consciously suppressed or unconsciously repressed. Therefore, it is necessary to deal with this problem by getting back to some of the experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. In order to do this I would suggest that you see a good psychiatrist who can assist you in bringing to the forefront of conscience all of those experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. You are already on the right road toward a solution, since you honestly recognize the problem and have a desire to solve


    So MLK said homosexuality is a mental disorder. Hadn't seen this quote before.

    Wasn't it officially labeled asa mental disorder back then?
    Mal_Fet posted...
    27_Sandman_40 posted...
    Mal_Fet posted... 
    27_Sandman_40 posted... 
    Except guys like John Adams fought to keep slavery out of the constitution back when the country was founded.

    Is slavery the only evil thing people 200 years ago believed in?


    i mean it's a good start if you didn't believe in slavery at that time compared to the rapist (jefferson), the slave owner (washington), and the genocider (jackson)

    Lol you already hate Jefferson for the crime of inheriting slaves, is it necessary to throw the dubious and likely untrue rumor of him being a rapist in there too?

    Point is, I will start taking people like you seriously as soon as you start advocating for removing MLK Jr. 's name and likeness from all schools, streets, and statues for his blatant homophobia. Until then, I'll continue writing you off as a hypocrite.


    which speech contained the homophobia?
    Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
    Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
    A_Good_Boy 1 day ago#87
    Twin3Turbo posted...
    The Admiral posted...
    Kyurem-BW posted... 
    https://swap.stanford.edu/20141218230500/http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/kingweb/publications/papers/vol4/580100-000-Advice_For_Living.htm 

    Question: My problem is different from the ones most people have. I am a boy, but I feel about boys the way I ought to feel about girls. I don't want my parents to know about me. What can I do? Is there any place where I can go for help? 

    Answer: Your problem is not at all an uncommon one. However, it does require careful attention. The type of feeling that you have toward boys is probably not an innate tendency, but something that has been culturally acquired. Your reasons for adopting this habit have now been consciously suppressed or unconsciously repressed. Therefore, it is necessary to deal with this problem by getting back to some of the experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. In order to do this I would suggest that you see a good psychiatrist who can assist you in bringing to the forefront of conscience all of those experiences and circumstances that lead to the habit. You are already on the right road toward a solution, since you honestly recognize the problem and have a desire to solve


    So MLK said homosexuality is a mental disorder. Hadn't seen this quote before.

    Wasn't it officially labeled asa mental disorder back then?

    Don't you know, everyone is a product of their time except for MLK.
    Posted with GameRaven 3.2.2
    "Some statue that I didn't even know existed until today got covered up, better go get upset about it."
    Gt: justaguy3492
    RickyTheBAWSE posted...
    Capn Circus posted...
    RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
    Capn Circus posted... 
    QwelzaarKane posted... 
    refuse to acknowledge that this country was built by some terrible people. 

    I'm indifferent on removing this statue, but we shouldn't be glossing over how s***ty most early Americans were.


    They weren't terrible people by any stretch of the imagination. They were our founding fathers who led the American revolution freeing us from Britain and contributed heavily to establishing our nation. The people of our past built and designed this nation out of absolutely nothing. 

    They practiced things no longer acceptable in today's society, but they weren't terrible people. I refuse to go along with the notion common practices of the distant past, whatever they may have been, made the people at the time terrible or stupid.


    wrong is wrong regardless of the time. legal and right are not the same. YOUR forefathers had s***ty souls and set the tone for the ethnic division we still have. the division that you contribute to in topics every day. 

    f*** Jefferson. simple as that.


    There will be a right way of doing things coming into consensus 300 years from now that will make us look stupid, unintelligent, or wrong. But we're not, most of us are doing the best we can with what we know and have to work with. 

    Going by your logic, we need to denounce your ancestors, too. (I'm assuming we don't have the same ones, since you emphasized "YOUR")


    logic escapes your post.

    who is this "us" you speak of? and why are you their spokesperson? if you can't hold yourself accountable for your own words and actions, that's on you. but you're still accountable regardless of how bad you want to be painted as a something different.

    and I said YOUR because you included yourself, but they aren't my forefathers. they didn't intend for people like me to be included in the their American dream. why should I pretend?


    Logic escapes my post, to you, because you don't really seem understand what you're even talking about or are able to follow words. "Us" clearly means the people living in this nation today. Including yourself. 

    I said founding fathers, which they are your founding fathers as well if you live in America. You then mentioned forefathers, which is is a term generally reserved for previous generation of family or ancestors.
    "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
    Capn Circus posted...
    RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
    Capn Circus posted... 
    RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
    Capn Circus posted... 
    QwelzaarKane posted... 
    refuse to acknowledge that this country was built by some terrible people. 

    I'm indifferent on removing this statue, but we shouldn't be glossing over how s***ty most early Americans were.


    They weren't terrible people by any stretch of the imagination. They were our founding fathers who led the American revolution freeing us from Britain and contributed heavily to establishing our nation. The people of our past built and designed this nation out of absolutely nothing. 

    They practiced things no longer acceptable in today's society, but they weren't terrible people. I refuse to go along with the notion common practices of the distant past, whatever they may have been, made the people at the time terrible or stupid.


    wrong is wrong regardless of the time. legal and right are not the same. YOUR forefathers had s***ty souls and set the tone for the ethnic division we still have. the division that you contribute to in topics every day. 

    f*** Jefferson. simple as that.


    There will be a right way of doing things coming into consensus 300 years from now that will make us look stupid, unintelligent, or wrong. But we're not, most of us are doing the best we can with what we know and have to work with. 

    Going by your logic, we need to denounce your ancestors, too. (I'm assuming we don't have the same ones, since you emphasized "YOUR")


    logic escapes your post. 

    who is this "us" you speak of? and why are you their spokesperson? if you can't hold yourself accountable for your own words and actions, that's on you. but you're still accountable regardless of how bad you want to be painted as a something different. 

    and I said YOUR because you included yourself, but they aren't my forefathers. they didn't intend for people like me to be included in the their American dream. why should I pretend?


    Logic escapes my post, to you, because you don't really seem understand what you're even talking about or are able to follow words. "Us" clearly means the people living in this nation today. Including yourself. 

    I said founding fathers, which they are your founding fathers as well if you live in America. You then mentioned forefathers, which is is a term generally reserved for previous generation of family or ancestors.


    again, wrong is wrong regardless of the time period. the term "legal" isn't synonymous with "right," and Jefferson is a forefather of White supremacy. at no point has that ever been okay. ever. why is that so hard for you to get? and why are you working so hard to stray from that point?

    he didn't do anything for me. he didn't found this nation for me nor did he consider people like me actually human. he's no more my founding father than he is a mule's. you don't get to decide these things for me, regardless of whatever privilege you think you've got.
    Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
    Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    Capn Circus posted...
    They practiced things no longer acceptable in today's society,


    There were a ton of people at the time who considered slavery abhorrent.
    All night I daydream of sleep but never get it
    Backlog: http://bit.ly/1Roh0a4 || PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3gcMGX
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    QwelzaarKane posted...
    Capn Circus posted...
    They practiced things no longer acceptable in today's society,


    There were a ton of people at the time who considered slavery abhorrent.


    This, like John Adams.
    yankees ws chizzamps
    exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.
    Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
    Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    RickyTheBAWSE posted...
    exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.

    Same goes for people talking about liberals and conservatives, imo.
    http://i.imgur.com/8pzUM.gif http://i.imgur.com/Oh1iujg.gif
    The only bad part about flying is having to come back down to the f***in' world ~Rat
    LordRazziel posted...
    RickyTheBAWSE posted...
    exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.

    Same goes for people talking about liberals and conservatives, imo.


    especially them, lol. political affiliations are conscious choices.
    Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
    Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
    27_Sandman_40 posted...
    This, like John Adams.


    John Adams also didn't support outright abolition, either. "Adams, despite being opposed to slavery, did not support abolitionism except if it was done in a “gradual” way with “much caution and Circumspection.” Adams dismisses radical abolitionist measures as “produc[ing] greater violations of Justice and Humanity, than the continuance of the practice” of slavery itself." - Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History. 

    People thought and behaved differently in the past. This goes for every nation and culture. Calling groups of people, particularly the founding fathers and other important molders of our nation--- soulless and terrible people is ridiculous, and most particularly ridiculous if you refuse to denounce and call others from various regions and cultures during those time periods also soulless and terrible. Which is exactly what is going on in this topic. 

    RickyTheBAWSE posted...

    exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.


    You either have a grandiose inflation of your ego to think no one 300 years from now will believe your actions and the way you live your life to be stupid, soulless, wrong, or terrible--- or you still aren't comprehending that I'm conveying standards, knowledge, and practices change over time.
    "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
    (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
    Capn Circus posted...
    You either have a grandiose inflation of your ego to think no one 300 years from now will believe your actions and the way you live your life to be stupid, soulless, wrong, or terrible or you still aren't comprehending that I'm conveying standards, knowledge, and practices change over time.


    QwelzaarKane posted...
    There were a ton of people at the time who considered slavery abhorrent.
    All night I daydream of sleep but never get it
    Backlog: http://bit.ly/1Roh0a4 || PC: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3gcMGX
    Esrac 1 day ago#98
    joe_stalin518 posted...
    Esrac posted...
    Zikten posted...
    yea Gandhi HATED black people. probably even more than Jefferson did. you should see some of the stuff he said about them


    Jefferson didn't even hate black people. Yeah, he was racist. He absolutely thought blacks were innately inferior to whites, but he didn't necessarily hate them. As I recall, he had actually proposed a plan to gradually free the slaves, train them in useful trades, and deport them. The deportation thing was mostly because he figured there would be too much bitterness and resentment between whites and blacks over slavery for them to live together peacefully.
    I heard Jefferson actually never bought a single slave, he inherited them from his wife's father and knew if he just let them go they would have all just been captured and put into slavery again, and he wanted to marry Elizabeth hemming but promised his wife on her deathbed he would never marry again


    That's not quite true. Jefferson inherited about 175 slaves combined from his father and father-in-law, but own about 600 over the course of his life. Most of them he acquired through the procreation of the slaves he inherited. He only bought around 20 or so, either to meet labor demands at Monticello or to unite spouses.

    And you're thinking of Sally Hemings. Elizabeth was her mother. He did promise his late wife, Martha, that he would never remarry. He did have a sexual relationship with Sally, who was Martha's half-sister and is said to have resembled her.
    Capn Circus posted...

    RickyTheBAWSE posted...

    exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.


    You either have a grandiose inflation of your ego to think no one 300 years from now will believe your actions and the way you live your life to be stupid, soulless, wrong, or terrible--- or you still aren't comprehending that I'm conveying standards, knowledge, and practices change over time.


    the bolded part, like what specifically about me? try to have something substantial.

    right and wrong never changes. the only thing that changes is what society considers acceptable. this is basic common sense that I'm being forced to point out because your argument is intellectually dishonest. at best.
    Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
    Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
    How the f*** can someone say 'wrong is wrong regardless of the time period'. The time period is the most important part of determining what's right and wrong, because society's opinion on that is always changing.

    Slavery wasn't 'wrong' back then. Some people felt like it was, sure, but that's only how things start.
    I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen...
    1. Boards
    2. Current Events
    3. Protesters cover Thomas Jefferson statue in black tarp
      1. Boards
      2. Current Events
      3. Protesters cover Thomas Jefferson statue in black tarp
      thronedfire2 posted...
      How the f*** can someone say 'wrong is wrong regardless of the time period'. The time period is the most important part of determining what's right and wrong, because society's opinion on that is always changing. 

      Slavery wasn't 'wrong' back then. Some people felt like it was, sure, but that's only how things start.


      already covered this. "nuh uh" isn't a retort.
      Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
      Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      Capn Circus posted...

      RickyTheBAWSE posted...

      exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.


      You either have a grandiose inflation of your ego to think no one 300 years from now will believe your actions and the way you live your life to be stupid, soulless, wrong, or terrible--- or you still aren't comprehending that I'm conveying standards, knowledge, and practices change over time.


      the bolded part, like what specifically about me? try to have something substantial.

      right and wrong never changes. the only thing that changes is what society considers acceptable.this is basic common sense that I'm being forced to point out because your argument is intellectually dishonest. at best.


      You said it yourself right there. We understand things to be right and wrong because society changes and evolves their ideas of what is considered acceptable. This applies to much more than just slavery. And people 300 years from now could very well be saying the same thing about our current way of life, or practices that are considered acceptable in our present day. You wouldn't call most people today soulless and terrible people, would you?
      "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
      Capn Circus posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      Capn Circus posted...

      RickyTheBAWSE posted...

      exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.


      You either have a grandiose inflation of your ego to think no one 300 years from now will believe your actions and the way you live your life to be stupid, soulless, wrong, or terrible--- or you still aren't comprehending that I'm conveying standards, knowledge, and practices change over time.


      the bolded part, like what specifically about me? try to have something substantial.

      right and wrong never changes. the only thing that changes is what society considers acceptable.this is basic common sense that I'm being forced to point out because your argument is intellectually dishonest. at best.


      You said it yourself right there. We understand things to be right and wrong because society changes and evolves their ideas of what is considered acceptable. This applies to much more than just slavery. And people 300 years from now could very well be saying the same thing about our current way of life, or practices that are considered acceptable in our present day. You wouldn't call most people today soulless and terrible people, would you?



      Great post.
      Zeeak4444 1 day ago#104
      Imagine how different life would be if things actually fell into "right" or "wrong" all the time.

      God what a boring world that would be.
      Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X
      kenio8185 1 day ago#105
      The Admiral posted...
      Hope these degenerates are expelled.

      Also, I'm assuming these students were too stupid to realize who founded the college they were applying to. Not sure why you'd willingly attend UVA if this was actually an issue.

      Ehhh, I don't like them but I don't think this is worth expulsion over. Doesn't matter though, there's a free market for colleges and universities. UVA is really hurtin now and if they keep letting this behavior continue, kids will be going to other schools and UVA will end up shutting down, or at least downsizing.
      Society nowadays is a lot better than 300 years ago right? How can that be subjective?
      "I'm an atheist too but still believe in hell. That's where you're headed pal." - Mr_Karate_II
      Capn Circus posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      Capn Circus posted... 

      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 

      exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.


      You either have a grandiose inflation of your ego to think no one 300 years from now will believe your actions and the way you live your life to be stupid, soulless, wrong, or terrible--- or you still aren't comprehending that I'm conveying standards, knowledge, and practices change over time.


      the bolded part, like what specifically about me? try to have something substantial. 

      right and wrong never changes. the only thing that changes is what society considers acceptable.this is basic common sense that I'm being forced to point out because your argument is intellectually dishonest. at best.


      You said it yourself right there. We understand things to be right and wrong because society changes and evolves their ideas of what is considered acceptable. This applies to much more than just slavery. And people 300 years from now could very well be saying the same thing about our current way of life, or practices that are considered acceptable in our present day. You wouldn't call most people today soulless and terrible people, would you?


      So you concede to the point you bolded, then? verbatim?

      terrible people can have good qualities and vice versa, but each individual is accountable for his/her own actions. regardless of time. even now.

      dehumanization of people is a trait of evil. so is supporting it. if the shoe fits, wear it.
      Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
      Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
      John Adams also didn't support outright abolition, either. "Adams, despite being opposed to slavery, did not support abolitionism except if it was done in a “gradual” way with “much caution and Circumspection.” Adams dismisses radical abolitionist measures as “produc[ing] greater violations of Justice and Humanity, than the continuance of the practice” of slavery itself." - Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History.


      Did you even read what you quoted? He's basically saying banning slavery overnight was going to destroy the country. He was saying it should be a gradual, yet swift process so that in the near future, slavery was abolished. That was unfortunately the optimal idea given the nation's state at the time.
      yankees ws chizzamps
      Hello from Washington! LOL
      Novus Ordo Seclorum
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      Capn Circus posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      Capn Circus posted... 

      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 

      exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.


      You either have a grandiose inflation of your ego to think no one 300 years from now will believe your actions and the way you live your life to be stupid, soulless, wrong, or terrible--- or you still aren't comprehending that I'm conveying standards, knowledge, and practices change over time.


      the bolded part, like what specifically about me? try to have something substantial. 

      right and wrong never changes. the only thing that changes is what society considers acceptable.this is basic common sense that I'm being forced to point out because your argument is intellectually dishonest. at best.


      You said it yourself right there. We understand things to be right and wrong because society changes and evolves their ideas of what is considered acceptable. This applies to much more than just slavery. And people 300 years from now could very well be saying the same thing about our current way of life, or practices that are considered acceptable in our present day. You wouldn't call most people today soulless and terrible people, would you?


      So you concede to the point you bolded, then? verbatim?

      terrible people can have good qualities and vice versa, but each individual is accountable for his/her own actions. regardless of time. even now.

      dehumanization of people is a trait of evil. so is supporting it. if the shoe fits, wear it.


      They're not held accountable because they are dead and have been dead for quite some time--- and the people living at the time with them didn't hold them accountable because perception was different. 

      If you feel so strongly about right and wrong, good and evil, you should be denouncing and calling a lot more people soulless and terrible than just our founding fathers. But, you won't.
      "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
      boxington 1 day ago#111
      people are trying to rationalize slavery as not being recognized as being bad, due to the time period, but societies had been abolishing slavery for hundreds of years by that point
      b-bb-box
      A TARP? Those f***ing monsters. When will the madness end? Imagine the taxpayer dollars that will have to be spent at home Depot on a ladder so the janitor can remove it. That's gonna cost at least $40.
      ~A little nonsense, now and then, is relished by the wisest men ~
      TWSSted since~ 3/27/12 https://i.imgur.com/zlaENmx.png
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      Thomas Jefferson is rolling over because people won't let him rest.

      The man suffered for his mistakes centuries ago and the world went on without him
      sig
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      darkphoenix181 posted...
      do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?


      He wasnt. Society changes over time, and in his time, being 'racist' by todays standards was the norm and totally accepted.
      --- MaverickXeo ---
      kenio8185 1 day ago#115
      MaverickXeo posted...
      darkphoenix181 posted...
      do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?


      He wasnt. Society changes over time, and in his time, being 'racist' by todays standards was the norm and totally accepted.

      This is pretty much the truth. Like f***, even MLK would be considered a racist or uncle Tom by some people in the modern day.
      Squidkids 1 day ago#116
      Zikten posted...
      I oppose anything done by BLM. f*** those racists

      with how they act currently? YUP
      with what the movement is supposed to stand for, nope

      being racist to fight racism doesn't work, ffs
      Be a team player, guard those super jump rings. See a team member inking a wall to swim up on? ink with them. Ink your foes into ash. http://tinyurl.com/z7hbzrr
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      kenio8185 posted...
      MaverickXeo posted...
      darkphoenix181 posted...
      do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?


      He wasnt. Society changes over time, and in his time, being 'racist' by todays standards was the norm and totally accepted.

      This is pretty much the truth. Like f***, even MLK would be considered a racist or uncle Tom by some people in the modern day.


      What the f*** am I even reading?
      All night I daydream of sleep but never get it
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      Capn Circus posted...
      Once again Trump turns out to be right. 

      Of course they'll go after other statues. If we continue to pacify this behavior, our entire constitution and principles of our nation will be dismantled because "they were racist".
      Babies throwing tantrums like babies. What's new?
      Listen to my story... This... May be our last chance...
      Dubstep song of the week http://youtu.be/MmVHWPdI5d0
      This is a good sign need that they have no pressing problems to worry about. Know why native americans don't give a f***? They got real problems that involve them trying not to waste away. 

      I wonder what most BLM protestors think of their history compared to the Natives. Do you think they think their ancestors had it worse?
      "All I have is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for anyone!"-Tony Montana
      Kyurem-BW posted...
      @darkphoenix181 posted...
      do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?

      do you believe it is right to vandalize the statue of a founding father of the United states? one of the 56 who signed the declaration of independence?


      A tarp is vandalism these days?
      You look EXTREMELY immature when you announce that you're about to ignore someone. No one cares, including the person about to be ignored. Just FYI.
      QwelzaarKane posted...
      kenio8185 posted...
      MaverickXeo posted...
      darkphoenix181 posted...
      do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?


      He wasnt. Society changes over time, and in his time, being 'racist' by todays standards was the norm and totally accepted.

      This is pretty much the truth. Like f***, even MLK would be considered a racist or uncle Tom by some people in the modern day.


      What the f*** am I even reading?


      He's not wrong about MLK but he's saying it for all the wrong reasons.
      yankees ws chizzamps
      Capn Circus posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      Capn Circus posted... 
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      Capn Circus posted... 

      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 

      exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.


      You either have a grandiose inflation of your ego to think no one 300 years from now will believe your actions and the way you live your life to be stupid, soulless, wrong, or terrible--- or you still aren't comprehending that I'm conveying standards, knowledge, and practices change over time.


      the bolded part, like what specifically about me? try to have something substantial. 

      right and wrong never changes. the only thing that changes is what society considers acceptable.this is basic common sense that I'm being forced to point out because your argument is intellectually dishonest. at best.


      You said it yourself right there. We understand things to be right and wrong because society changes and evolves their ideas of what is considered acceptable. This applies to much more than just slavery. And people 300 years from now could very well be saying the same thing about our current way of life, or practices that are considered acceptable in our present day. You wouldn't call most people today soulless and terrible people, would you?


      So you concede to the point you bolded, then? verbatim? 

      terrible people can have good qualities and vice versa, but each individual is accountable for his/her own actions. regardless of time. even now. 

      dehumanization of people is a trait of evil. so is supporting it. if the shoe fits, wear it.


      They're not held accountable because they are dead and have been dead for quite some time--- and the people living at the time with them didn't hold them accountable because perception was different. 

      If you feel so strongly about right and wrong, good and evil, you should be denouncing and calling a lot more people soulless and terrible than just our founding fathers. But, you won't.


      your argument continues to degenerate further and further. they were held accountable for their many many actions. they were men of power who weren't penalized for being pro-slavery, but they were indeed held accountable. what does the word accountable mean to you?

      lol @ thinking the dead can't be held accountable, lmao. "oh, he's dead so everything he did doesn't count." are you saying that the dead also shouldn't be honored? same coin, different sides. 

      the latter half of your post is you making unsubstantiated statements in an attempt to begin the deflecting process. 

      you didn't answer my question about conceding, however. you've been glossing over things in every post, tbh.
      Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
      Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      Callixtus 1 day ago#124
      boxington posted...
      people are trying to rationalize slavery as not being recognized as being bad, due to the time period, but societies had been abolishing slavery for hundreds of years by that point

      Hundreds of years? Do you have a society in particular that you mean?
      Liberal Arrogance:Academics are overwhelmingly liberal because the nature of the job, seeking information for the good of humanity, self selects liberals--COVxy
      Callixtus posted...
      boxington posted...
      people are trying to rationalize slavery as not being recognized as being bad, due to the time period, but societies had been abolishing slavery for hundreds of years by that point

      Hundreds of years? Do you have a society in particular that you mean?


      dude just let it go

      if you feel the need to argue without conceding the point that jefferson was an evil dick it says a lot about your self control

      just let it go
      yankees ws chizzamps
      boxington 1 day ago#126
      Unsugarized_Foo posted...
      This is a good sign need that they have no pressing problems to worry about. Know why native americans don't give a f***? They got real problems that involve them trying not to waste away. 

      I wonder what most BLM protestors think of their history compared to the Natives. Do you think they think their ancestors had it worse?

      this is an ignorant post. 

      millions of natives lost their life, land, and culture

      millions of Africans lost their life, land, and culture.
      b-bb-box
      You forgot genocide. Thats important
      "All I have is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for anyone!"-Tony Montana
      boxington 1 day ago#128
      Callixtus posted...
      boxington posted...
      people are trying to rationalize slavery as not being recognized as being bad, due to the time period, but societies had been abolishing slavery for hundreds of years by that point

      Hundreds of years? Do you have a society in particular that you mean?

      I was looking it up, and some societies would end slavery, but would be taken up under different regimes

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_abolition_of_slavery_and_serfdom
      b-bb-box
      27_Sandman_40 posted...
      QwelzaarKane posted...
      kenio8185 posted...
      MaverickXeo posted...
      darkphoenix181 posted...
      do you believe Thomas Jefferson was not a racist?


      He wasnt. Society changes over time, and in his time, being 'racist' by todays standards was the norm and totally accepted.

      This is pretty much the truth. Like f***, even MLK would be considered a racist or uncle Tom by some people in the modern day.


      What the f*** am I even reading?


      He's not wrong about MLK but he's saying it for all the wrong reasons.


      True. It's hard for me to remember the "some people" he's referring to. All the stupid SJW/alt-right/etc. s*** that's been going on just doesn't pop up around here.

      The other guy in the quote is dumb, though.
      All night I daydream of sleep but never get it
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      boxington 1 day ago#130
      Unsugarized_Foo posted...
      You forgot genocide. Thats important

      if you add what was going on in Africa along with the Americas, then the same thing was happening

      look up what King Leopold did in the Congo
      b-bb-box
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      Capn Circus posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      Capn Circus posted... 
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      Capn Circus posted... 

      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 

      exactly why people should be careful about using the word "us" and "we." you don't speak for everybody who is the same hue as you, lol.


      You either have a grandiose inflation of your ego to think no one 300 years from now will believe your actions and the way you live your life to be stupid, soulless, wrong, or terrible--- or you still aren't comprehending that I'm conveying standards, knowledge, and practices change over time.


      the bolded part, like what specifically about me? try to have something substantial. 

      right and wrong never changes. the only thing that changes is what society considers acceptable.this is basic common sense that I'm being forced to point out because your argument is intellectually dishonest. at best.


      You said it yourself right there. We understand things to be right and wrong because society changes and evolves their ideas of what is considered acceptable. This applies to much more than just slavery. And people 300 years from now could very well be saying the same thing about our current way of life, or practices that are considered acceptable in our present day. You wouldn't call most people today soulless and terrible people, would you?


      So you concede to the point you bolded, then? verbatim? 

      terrible people can have good qualities and vice versa, but each individual is accountable for his/her own actions. regardless of time. even now. 

      dehumanization of people is a trait of evil. so is supporting it. if the shoe fits, wear it.


      They're not held accountable because they are dead and have been dead for quite some time--- and the people living at the time with them didn't hold them accountable because perception was different. 

      If you feel so strongly about right and wrong, good and evil, you should be denouncing and calling a lot more people soulless and terrible than just our founding fathers. But, you won't.


      your argument continues to degenerate further and further. they were held accountable for their many many actions. they were men of power who weren't penalized for being pro-slavery, but they were indeed held accountable. what does the word accountable mean to you?

      lol @ thinking the dead can't be held accountable, lmao. "oh, he's dead so everything he did doesn't count." are you saying that the dead also shouldn't be honored? same coin, different sides. 

      the latter half of your post is you making unsubstantiated statements in an attempt to begin the deflecting process. 

      you didn't answer my question about conceding, however. you've been glossing over things in every post, tbh.


      Accountable: required or expected to justify actions or decisions 

      Dead people can't justify their actions because they're dead. You're having trouble with the English language. First you conflate 'founding fathers' with 'forefathers'-- and now this. You also won't call any other culture or group soulless and terrible due to their actions except for the founding fathers. 

      At this point, it's obvious you're ill-equipped for discourse.
      "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
      Capn Circus posted...
      You also won't call any other culture or group soulless and terrible due to their actions except for the founding fathers.


      "but her e-mails"
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      QwelzaarKane posted...
      Capn Circus posted...
      You also won't call any other culture or group soulless and terrible due to their actions except for the founding fathers.


      "but her e-mails"


      Your agenda in this topic got so indefensible you had to pull out a snide political remark. Sad.
      "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
      Kyurem-BW 1 day ago#134
      while the founding fathers of the us did buy slaves and that is wrong and they never should have bought them to begin with. who sold them to them to begin with? 

      http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/41431
      dont know why I even have one of these
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      Capn Circus posted...
      QwelzaarKane posted...
      Capn Circus posted...
      You also won't call any other culture or group soulless and terrible due to their actions except for the founding fathers.


      "but her e-mails"


      Your agenda in this topic got so indefensible you had to pull out a snide political remark. Sad.


      What agenda? And other cultures/groups are as relevant to this topic as Hillary is to the stupid s*** Trump says. Other people being s***ty doesn't affect the s***tiness of the people being talked about ITT.
      All night I daydream of sleep but never get it
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      QwelzaarKane posted...
      What agenda? And other cultures/groups are as relevant to this topic as Hillary is to the stupid s*** Trump says. Other people being s***ty doesn't affect the s***tiness of the people being talked about ITT


      Because it was the global norm, among all races and cultures. Singling out one group because it aligns with your identity politics should be condemned.

      While it doesn't seem to get mentioned much, the Native Americans also bought and owned slaves, picking them up at the same auctions as the European-American settlers. In fact, the Cherokees -- the tribe that underwent the trail of tears -- were the largest Native American group to own African slaves by far. And yet, for some reason, I never see the Natives get called evil for their part in slavery. That's a title that only seems to be reserved for the white slave owners.
      - The Admiral
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      Capn Circus posted...


      Accountable: required or expected to justify actions or decisions 

      Dead people can't justify their actions because they're dead. You're having trouble with the English language. First you conflate 'founding fathers' with 'forefathers'-- and now this. You also won't call any other culture or group soulless and terrible due to their actions except for the founding fathers. 

      At this point, it's obvious you're ill-equipped for discourse.


      those dead people DID justify their actions while they lived. they felt slavery, genocide, etc... was necessary and that's what they stuck with. they were terrible for it, but they held themselves accountable. the definition agrees, lol. how can you argue against written history and expect others to continue to play along with your disingenuous game?

      I noticed you didn't answer my question about conceding to that bolded question earlier. you also neglected to respond to my comment about honoring them instead, because that is the other side of the same coin. very relevant. since dead people shouldn't be held accountable for things they did while they lived, should we really be honoring/shaming anything that was the result of their actions? 

      your argument has crumbled and you are stuck trying to look for other things to cling on to in order to deflect from the point. so what if I misused "forefather" the first time? I realized right after and clarified by saying "founding fathers" afterwards, and the context fit what I had been trying to say the first time anyway.

      just like before, you ended your post with another unsubstantiated statement about me. you don't know me well enough to be making these types of presumptions, and it's evidence that you've got nothing else to give. at least concede with dignity.
      Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
      Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      QwelzaarKane posted...
      Capn Circus posted...
      QwelzaarKane posted...
      Capn Circus posted...
      You also won't call any other culture or group soulless and terrible due to their actions except for the founding fathers.


      "but her e-mails"


      Your agenda in this topic got so indefensible you had to pull out a snide political remark. Sad.


      What agenda? And other cultures/groups are as relevant to this topic as Hillary is to the stupid s*** Trump says. Other people being s***ty doesn't affect the s***tiness of the people being talked about ITT.


      Your agenda of supporting/sympathizing with people being uncivilized, climbing around on property. 

      And many people are being talked about in this topic. More particularly, the uncivil people climbing on statues in the first place. There's plenty room for discussion that expands further, which it did. I'm sorry you're having trouble acknowledging points made.
      "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks
      -evil is the same in any time period. whether it's acceptable or not depends on that society.

      -if dead figures should not be shamed, should they be honored by the same token? bias?
      Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
      Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      This country has gone insane.
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      Zeeak4444 1 day ago#141
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      -evil is the same in any time period. whether it's acceptable or not depends on that society.

      -if dead figures should not be shamed, should they be honored by the same token? bias?


      Evil is a concept we literally thought up.

      Evil is subjective. It's objectively subjective in the majority of cases. The situation dictates, not necessarily the society.

      Your whole argument is flawed because murder is not objectively evil.
      Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      Zeeak4444 posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      -evil is the same in any time period. whether it's acceptable or not depends on that society. 

      -if dead figures should not be shamed, should they be honored by the same token? bias?


      Evil is a concept we literally thought up. 

      Evil is subjective. It's objectively subjective in the majority of decisions. 

      Your whole argument is flawed because murder is not objectively evil.


      that's if you completely ignore the context. why are you removing it?
      Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
      Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      Zeeak4444 1 day ago#143
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      Zeeak4444 posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      -evil is the same in any time period. whether it's acceptable or not depends on that society. 

      -if dead figures should not be shamed, should they be honored by the same token? bias?


      Evil is a concept we literally thought up. 

      Evil is subjective. It's objectively subjective in the majority of decisions. 

      Your whole argument is flawed because murder is not objectively evil.


      that's if you completely ignore the context. why are you removing it?


      I'm not removing the context. You're deciding to talk about "evil". If you wanna talk about slavery say slavery. 

      Edit: to clarify, I'm refering to all your "right" and "wrong" never changes talk.
      Typical gameFAQers are "Complainers that always complain about those who complain about real legitimate complaints."-Joker_X
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      Zeeak4444 posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      Zeeak4444 posted... 
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      -evil is the same in any time period. whether it's acceptable or not depends on that society. 

      -if dead figures should not be shamed, should they be honored by the same token? bias?


      Evil is a concept we literally thought up. 

      Evil is subjective. It's objectively subjective in the majority of decisions. 

      Your whole argument is flawed because murder is not objectively evil.


      that's if you completely ignore the context. why are you removing it?


      I'm not removing the context. You're deciding to talk about "evil". If you wanna talk about slavery say slavery.


      I'm talking about the evil practice of slavery. it's not a complex concept to understand. you saw the context.

      to make the argument you're trying to deflect to, are you sure the subject of slavery is the one you want to do it on? lol
      Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
      Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      Zeeak4444 posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      Zeeak4444 posted... 
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      -evil is the same in any time period. whether it's acceptable or not depends on that society. 

      -if dead figures should not be shamed, should they be honored by the same token? bias?


      Evil is a concept we literally thought up. 

      Evil is subjective. It's objectively subjective in the majority of decisions. 

      Your whole argument is flawed because murder is not objectively evil.


      that's if you completely ignore the context. why are you removing it?


      I'm not removing the context. You're deciding to talk about "evil". If you wanna talk about slavery say slavery.


      I'm talking about the evil practice of slavery. it's not a complex concept to understand. you saw the context.

      to make the argument you're trying to deflect to, are you sure the subject of slavery is the one you want to do it on? lol


      it's only evil because people decided it is. if everyone in the world practiced slavery would it be considered evil?
      I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen...
      thronedfire2 posted...
      RickyTheBAWSE posted...
      Zeeak4444 posted... 
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      Zeeak4444 posted... 
      RickyTheBAWSE posted... 
      -evil is the same in any time period. whether it's acceptable or not depends on that society. 

      -if dead figures should not be shamed, should they be honored by the same token? bias?


      Evil is a concept we literally thought up. 

      Evil is subjective. It's objectively subjective in the majority of decisions. 

      Your whole argument is flawed because murder is not objectively evil.


      that's if you completely ignore the context. why are you removing it?


      I'm not removing the context. You're deciding to talk about "evil". If you wanna talk about slavery say slavery.


      I'm talking about the evil practice of slavery. it's not a complex concept to understand. you saw the context. 

      to make the argument you're trying to deflect to, are you sure the subject of slavery is the one you want to do it on? lol


      it's only evil because people decided it is. if everyone in the world practiced slavery would it be considered evil?


      like American slavery? yes? lol
      Never let those intent on misunderstanding you be the narrator to YOUR story!
      Context? Context!? CONTEXT!!!
      So glad that eastern and southern Europe are rejecting this garbage.
      Listen to my story... This... May be our last chance...
      Dubstep song of the week http://youtu.be/MmVHWPdI5d0
      The Admiral posted...
      Singling out one group because it aligns with your identity politics should be condemned.


      Sure, but this topic is about a statue of a specific person. If the statue in question was of a Native American who owned slaves I'd be saying the same things. It's not, though. I haven't read every post ITT but the only people I've seen bringing up other cultures are trying to minimize what Jefferson did. Like I said before, I don't care about whether the statue stays or goes. I just think it's wrong honor someone while also ignoring the really bad s*** they did.

      I won't act like I'm not fairly left-leaning but I have as much disdain for "the left" as anyone. They're a bunch of ignorant, whiny b****es who get so caught up in their bulls*** that they push away people like me who should be on their side. Trying to lump me in with a group I don't at all identify with is pointless.
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      Mal_Fet 1 day ago#149
      QwelzaarKane posted...
      I don't care about whether the statue stays or goes. I just think it's wrong honor someone while also ignoring the really bad s*** they did.

      Who is ignoring that Jefferson owned slaves?
      Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
      -George Orwell
      Mal_Fet posted...
      QwelzaarKane posted...
      I don't care about whether the statue stays or goes. I just think it's wrong honor someone while also ignoring the really bad s*** they did.

      Who is ignoring that Jefferson owned slaves?


      Anyone confused or surprised that some black people are against having a statue honoring him.

      That was more about the statue itself, though. I imagine there's plaques and whatnot talking about the things he did. If they don't talk about both the good and bad, that's wrong imo.

      Capn Circus posted...
      Your agenda of supporting/sympathizing with people being uncivilized, climbing around on property.


      [citation needed]
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      (edited 1 day ago)reportquote
      1. Boards
      2. Current Events 
      3. Protesters cover Thomas Jefferson statue in black tarp