Search This Blog

Showing posts with label scam. Show all posts
Showing posts with label scam. Show all posts

June 4, 2019

One of my wife's family members fell for the Vector Marketing scam

  1. Boards
  2. Current Events
  3. One of my wife's family members fell for the Vector Marketing scam
Do you know anyone that got suckered by them? He hasn't made any money but claims he's on fast track to management, it's weird how willingly he believes their promises of big earnings. He doesn't seem to care at all that it's clearly a MLM scheme
The Legend is True!
You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
Goats 3 hours ago#3
I just don't get how they trick anyone. I went to one of their meetings and it was just a total bongshow. Garbage everywhere. Drowning everyone in fake niceness. Could see the tape holding up signs, etc. They didn't even look professional yet everyone there but a few people were just eating it up.

Someone said I should try it for a job once when I was in between jobs and got all angry and self righteous when I said it was a scam.
Sigless user alert
Smashingpmkns 3 hours ago#4
Dunno how people still fall for that s***, especially Vector.
Clean Butt Crew
Prestoff 3 hours ago#5
They trick people by going after the ones that need a job.
It's what all true warriors strive for!
Switch FC: SW-0575-4758-7878
I listened to something on NPR about them. Apparently 92% go into debt or just break even
"All I have is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for anyone!"-Tony Montana
MC_BatCommander 3 hours ago#7
karlpilkington4 posted...
You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.


It definitely is
The Legend is True!
MrToothHasYou 3 hours ago#8
karlpilkington4 posted...
You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.

lmao
http://weareontherun.bandcamp.com
^^^^^ HEY! ^^^ LISTEN! ^^^^^
Smashingpmkns posted...
Dunno how people still fall for that s***, especially Vector.


There's nothing to fall for. You sell products, and you make money. People in general simply can't sell (or persuade others) and therefore do not make any money. It's a commission based job. Now if you sell a product or get someone under you who sells, and you're not getting paid, then its a scam. But that's not what's actually happening in most every case.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
(edited 3 hours ago)reportquote
Guide 3 hours ago#10
Smashingpmkns posted...
Dunno how people still fall for that s***, especially Vector.


Some people, despite having almost all information available and curated for free in their pocket, just don't bother to take a minute to scan for criticisms.
MC_BatCommander posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.


It definitely is


Explain the scam in detail. I'll wait.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
Mister_Spyker 2 hours ago#12
I have a friend who is into Herbalife and she makes some really good money. More than double the living wage. I'm not sure how much but she's really really successful and has a lot of other people working for her now. It's one of those things that is amazing for a very particular sort of person. Like very outgoing people who manage to really influence the people around them and are able to manage themselves. It's definitely not a business for your average Joe. Plus, she lost a lot of weight and looked amazing after she did Herbalife for some months.

Most people should just stay away from it, tho, unless they like the products, in which case just buy them, but don't quit your dayjob.
Dear lord, Spyker just ripped his entire life apart in nothing more than a few paragraphs. Ouch... - RexSilver
(edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
ThePrinceFish 2 hours ago#13
"It's not a scam as long as you're the kind of person that can scam others harder than the jerk that got you involved scams you."
Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say 'Golly gee, I can't do that"
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
PiOverlord 2 hours ago#14
My college has their job postings listed everywhere.
Number of legendary 500 post topics: 28, 500th posts: 2; PiO ATTN: 5
RotM wins 1, LETTEN MY ARROW FLYEN TRUE
MC_BatCommander 2 hours ago#15
ThePrinceFish posted...
"It's not a scam as long as you're the kind of person that can scam others harder than the jerk that got you involved scams you."


Lol pretty much.

There are plenty of real sales jobs with hourly wages and benefits, idk how MLMs are so successful in recruiting people
The Legend is True!
Mister_Spyker 2 hours ago#16
ThePrinceFish posted...
"It's not a scam as long as you're the kind of person that can scam others harder than the jerk that got you involved scams you."

If you're selling a product that works and people buy it, then I don't think it's a scam.
I think the Herbalife diet works. I'm not sure how, but people who follow it strictly get amazing results.
Dear lord, Spyker just ripped his entire life apart in nothing more than a few paragraphs. Ouch... - RexSilver
Mister_Spyker posted...
I have a friend who is into Herbalife and she makes some really good money. More than double the living wage. I'm not sure how much but she's really really successful and has a lot of other people working for her now. It's one of those things that is amazing for a very particular sort of person. Like very outgoing people who manage to really influence the people around them and are able to manage themselves. It's definitely not a business for your average Joe. Plus, she lost a lot of weight and looked amazing after she did Herbalife for some months.

Most people should just stay away from it, tho, unless they like the products, in which case just buy them, but don't quit your dayjob.


Good post. It takes a mental shift to work on commission and essentially be on your own, selling. Most people can't handle that. But that doesn't make it a scam. A lot of people simply don't have the skills required to succeed in that business model. The people who do, can flourish.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
thronedfire2 2 hours ago#18
karlpilkington4 posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
 show hidden quote(s)


It definitely is


Explain the scam in detail. I'll wait.


How about you explain in detail how it’s not a scam first
I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen...
Smashingpmkns 2 hours ago#19
Can't think of many real commission jobs that require sales people themselves recruiting in order to stay afloat. There's a documentary on Herbalife called Betting on Zero that goes into detail on how many lives have been ruined.
Clean Butt Crew
Umbreon 2 hours ago#20
thronedfire2 posted...


How about you explain in detail how it’s not a scam first


Do you believe the person you're speaking to is sincere?
This is a mobile account, forgive any errors. ~DYL~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTEX3YdEi7s
ocelot51 2 hours ago#21
Not all MLMs are scams but most of them are exploitative. A very, very small subset of people make anything resembling decent income and it definitely takes real work to get anywhere with it. A far cry from how they're portrayed in the ads.
Mister_Spyker 2 hours ago#22
Smashingpmkns posted...
Can't think of many real commission jobs that require sales people themselves recruiting in order to stay afloat. There's a documentary on Herbalife called Betting on Zero that goes into detail on how many lives have been ruined.

Yeah, made by a guy who hates Herbalife.
Dear lord, Spyker just ripped his entire life apart in nothing more than a few paragraphs. Ouch... - RexSilver
MC_BatCommander 2 hours ago#23
karlpilkington4 posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
 show hidden quote(s)


It definitely is


Explain the scam in detail. I'll wait.


It's a few people profiting by mass recruitment of naive and untrained "contractors". Basically you "hire" anyone that walks in the door, give them minimal (and unpaid) sales training, then have them pay you a "deposit" on the product.

Any industry where 90%+ of the employees don't make money is a scam in my book
The Legend is True!
thronedfire2 posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
 show hidden quote(s)


Explain the scam in detail. I'll wait.


How about you explain in detail how it’s not a scam first


You sell their products, they pay you. If you get other people under you, and they sell, the company gives you a percentage of their sales too. 

How is any of that a scam?
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
Smashingpmkns 2 hours ago#25
Mister_Spyker posted...
Smashingpmkns posted...
Can't think of many real commission jobs that require sales people themselves recruiting in order to stay afloat. There's a documentary on Herbalife called Betting on Zero that goes into detail on how many lives have been ruined.

Yeah, made by a guy who hates Herbalife.


It followed a Harvard graduate hedge fund manager, it was made by the dude who made Darfur Now.
Clean Butt Crew
MC_BatCommander posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
 show hidden quote(s)


Explain the scam in detail. I'll wait.


It's a few people profiting by mass recruitment of naive and untrained "contractors". Basically you "hire" anyone that walks in the door, give them minimal (and unpaid) sales training, then have them pay you a "deposit" on the product.

Any industry where 90%+ of the employees don't make money is a scam in my book


That doesn't make it a scam. There is a definition of scam, and "your book" is irrelevant to the actual definition. The amount of people failing at something is irrelevant to what makes something a scam or not. If you sell their products, they pay you.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
lincoln002 2 hours ago#27
Mlms are no different than regular jobs, the thing about doing mlm that differs from doing other jobs is that you can build more skills doing mlm than being a cashier for instance. So the trade off you you don't get a comfy per hour rate cuz it's based on performance but you build skills that make you extremely valuable to almost any employer so if it doesn't work out you can go back to getting paid hourly or salary but with the mlm psychology to make you a more valuable employee.
MC_BatCommander 2 hours ago#28
karlpilkington4 posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
 show hidden quote(s)


It's a few people profiting by mass recruitment of naive and untrained "contractors". Basically you "hire" anyone that walks in the door, give them minimal (and unpaid) sales training, then have them pay you a "deposit" on the product.

Any industry where 90%+ of the employees don't make money is a scam in my book


That doesn't make it a scam. There is a definition of scam, and "your book" is irrelevant to the actual definition. The amount of people failing at something is irrelevant to what makes something a scam or not. If you sell their products, they pay you.


Whatever you say man, I don't agree with you at all

Any company that uses misleading recruiting tactics to make money definitely falls under the definition of scam, and Vector is for sure one of those. Idk about every MLM but Vector absolutely is one
The Legend is True!
(edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
ThePrinceFish 2 hours ago#29
I've seen enough dudes renting fancy cars and clothes to project an aura of success to groups of rubes, I mean prospective "partners", to know that multilevel marketing is the biggest f***ing scam imaginable.
Dielman on Rivers: "I've tried to get him to say s--- or f--- and all he'll ever do is say 'Golly gee, I can't do that"
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Benify 2 hours ago#30
So what do they sell?
Certified Scorpion, Erron Black, and Noob Saibot expert in MK11.
MC_BatCommander posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
 show hidden quote(s)


That doesn't make it a scam. There is a definition of scam, and "your book" is irrelevant to the actual definition. The amount of people failing at something is irrelevant to what makes something a scam or not. If you sell their products, they pay you.


Whatever you say man, I don't agree with you at all


It's literally the definition of the word. There's nothing to disagree with. When you signup, you are told how to get paid and what's required. You sell their products, you get paid. You get people to sell on your team, you get paid. 

Just because people can't sell, doesn't make it a scam.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
Master_Bass 2 hours ago#32
Remember kids, it's not a real job if they have you buy products from them first.
Many Bothans died to bring you this post.
(edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
Benify posted...
So what do they sell?


Each company has its own products. Health products, beauty products, knives, etc.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
DarkRoast 2 hours ago#34
karlpilkington4 posted...
You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.


Yes it is

It's a pyramid scheme. The one only ones who make money are the ones who get cuts from the sales of their underlings.
Well allons-y, Alonso!
(edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
#35
(message deleted)
DarkRoast posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.


Yes it is

It's a pyramid scheme. The one only ones who make money are the ones who get cuts from the sales of their underlings.


That's not true at all, and even if it were, its not a scam if the company outlines that requirement in the beginning. 

Maybe learn what the word scam means.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
lincoln002 2 hours ago#37
Master_Bass posted...
Remember kids, it's not a real job if they have you buy products from them first.


You mean kind of how you have to pay for bs certificates, degrees and further education for other jobs? LOL
ArchiePeck 2 hours ago#38
It's exploitative, but it's not a "scam" - no-one is getting cheated out of anything. If you are an extremely good and charismatic seller you will be able to make good money. Most people aren't, which is why I agree that seling them the idea is exploitative.
DarkRoast 2 hours ago#39
“The loss rate for MLMs is at least 99%. This means that less than one in 100 MLMparticipants make a clear profit, and at least 99 out of 100 participants actually losemoney,” Taylor reports. Less than one in one hundred. Your odds of sleeping through the night with three-month-old triplets are higher.Aug 17, 2017

https://due.com/blog/3-mind-blowing-statistics-about-mlms/

99% of MLM participants lose money

According to research at the FTC, a whopping 99% of recruited sellers lose money in an MLM venture. That means just 1% actually turn a profit. That is generally just those at the very top of a recruitment structure. Because recruiters earn from their own sales and the sales of everyone they recruit, and their recruits, and so one, those at the top can earn a profit. But with 99% of people losing money, it’s hard to see why anyone would join this type of company.

It’s hard to succeed in any business, but the success rate is well over the 1% you see in MLMs. The same FTC report explains that 39% of legitimate small businesses ultimately earn a profit over time. That’s still less than a 50/50 success rate, but about 39x better than an MLM.

Before starting in any business, regardless of the product or service, do your research and find hard numbers on your odds for success. There is risk in starting any business venture. As long as you understand and can afford those risks, that’s okay. However, you should never start a business where the odds of success are better at a Vegas slot machine.

95% quit within ten years

What happens in a business model where everyone loses money? Everyone quits. Well, not quite everyone. But close to it. The same FTC report from Jon Taylor explains that 95% of MLM participants quit within ten years. Around 30% of all small businesses survive at least ten years, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data. That means the typical small business has 6x the longevity, when measured by who’s around after 10 years, of MLMs.

While it makes sense that people would get want to move on from some businesses after a period of time, the rate at which people flee MLMs are a testament to the 1% profitability rate above. According to another study, at least half of participants quit within one year.

All businesses take a lot of work and there is no quick and easy path to success. If there were, everyone would be doing it!
Well allons-y, Alonso!
lechaflan 2 hours ago#40
I used to be part of Primerica for a few months. Went to all these meetings and whatnot thinking I could make money. The words they used and the way they said them were so pretty I was just like "f*** it, I'll try this". What I felt so uncomfortable about it was that as soon as I joined, they asked me for all my contacts and to schedule meetings with them. Needless to say, most of the people I contacted warned me offside not to deal with them so of course I couldn't produce results. I didn't listen and found myself miserable for the next few months.

Is the potential to make money there? Of course but you have to either have the right attitude/mindset to grow/improve and really commit to it. I had neither, felt it just wasn't for me, and worst of all, felt like they were badgering me WAY too much for someone that didn't get results, and just stopped answering calls until my license expired. I'm all for positive energy support but it was so damn suffocating especially since I found no passion for the work.

My trainer went as far as thinking of me as a little brother even though I only knew him for 2 months. Yea. No. 

Are such models scams? I'd imagine businesses for the most part follow a pyramidic model. The reason I say Primerica was a scam (at least the branch I worked for) was due to my personal experience and how I just ate up all these fancy way of wording things differently just to increase their marketability. Some people have the drive to succeed and I'm glad I realized before I spent too much money/gas that I didn't mind not succeeding in that company.

.... TDLR... i don't know why I ranted on that lol but it was one of the most defeating times of my life.
3DS: 0275-8008-3626
Pretty blatant scam
All Hail King Connor!
Official Connor Hellebuyck fanboy
Tyranthraxus 2 hours ago#42
karlpilkington4 posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
 show hidden quote(s)


It definitely is


Explain the scam in detail. I'll wait.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme
It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
ArchiePeck posted...
It's exploitative, but it's not a "scam" - no-one is getting cheated out of anything. If you are an extremely good and charismatic seller you will be able to make good money. Most people aren't, which is why I agree that seling them the idea is exploitative.


I agree with this for some companies. They target poor people who definitely don't have the skills or mindset to do this
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
(edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
DarkRoast 2 hours ago#44
ArchiePeck posted...
It's exploitative, but it's not a "scam" - no-one is getting cheated out of anything. If you are an extremely good and charismatic seller you will be able to make good money. Most people aren't, which is why I agree that seling them the idea is exploitative.


No, even if you sell balls to the wall, you won't make jack. The only way to actually make money in MLM is to recruit tons and tons of salespeople under you and get a cut of their sales (and then inherit their customers when they quit)
Well allons-y, Alonso!
Not calling it a scam is semantics. But it's far from the only scam-like entity in the job sphere. Everybody's trying to get as much free money as possible from others looking to get as much free money as possible
"Iwata was awesome" - Mr. Nintendo
https://i.imgtc.com/7dRrfE1.jpg
Tyranthraxus posted...
karlpilkington4 posted...
MC_BatCommander posted...
 show hidden quote(s)


Explain the scam in detail. I'll wait.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme


None of that proved it was a scam. 

Nice attempt. Maybe try harder than a copy/paste next time.
Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
MacDaMurderer 2 hours ago#47
Most of it is a scam because the products and services they sell are trash. My bro fell for one of them where he sold basically an AAA like car service for half the price of AAA. But if you look up the actual service it was f***ing garbage. Most of the time you had to pay upfront for the service and the fake AAA company would reimburse you (they never did)

Literally tried to get me to sign up and I told him it was a scam. He swore to me it wasn’t. Two months later he was like “well I only lost $250 so it wasn’t really a scam” 🤦‍♂
@macdamurderer
GT: Mac Da Murderer
tullock 2 hours ago#48
karlpilkington4 posted...
You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.


Of course you would say that
Master_Bass 2 hours ago#49
lincoln002 posted...
Master_Bass posted...
Remember kids, it's not a real job if they have you buy products from them first.


You mean kind of how you have to pay for bs certificates, degrees and further education for other jobs? LOL

At least a lot of those will get you a decent job. All you get with an MLM is debt and some hideous leggings with essential oils smeared on them.
Many Bothans died to bring you this post.
radical rhino 2 hours ago#50
Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!
.____ 
[____]===0 . . . . Ye olde beating stick.
  1. Boards
  2. Current Events
  3. One of my wife's family members fell for the Vector Marketing scam
    1. Boards
    2. Current Events
    3. One of my wife's family members fell for the Vector Marketing scam
    Bishop9800 2 hours ago#51
    radical rhino posted...
    Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!
    DarkRoast posted...
    ArchiePeck posted...
    It's exploitative, but it's not a "scam" - no-one is getting cheated out of anything. If you are an extremely good and charismatic seller you will be able to make good money. Most people aren't, which is why I agree that seling them the idea is exploitative.


    No, even if you sell balls to the wall, you won't make jack.


    Untrue. 

    Understand how MLM businesses are different from pyramid schemes. In a legal MLM business, you sell legitimate products that people genuinely want for a fair price. You can make money just by selling the product. You don’t have to recruit others into the business to make money, even though you may be encouraged to do so to earn more money. MLM businesses are not about taking advantage of anybody. Nobody has to lose money in order for you to make money.[2]

    This article was co-authored by Michael R. Lewis. Michael R. Lewis is a retired corporate executive, entrepreneur, and investment advisor in Texas. He has over 40 years of experience in Business & Finance.

    There are 27 references cited in this article, which can be found at the bottom of the page.


    https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Money-with-MLM
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    DarkRoast 2 hours ago#53
    Common MLM sales pitch:

    hH8fxSj

    m3TIqo6

    Why it doesn't work:

    BPSkm6I
    Well allons-y, Alonso!
    Bishop9800 posted...
    radical rhino posted...
    Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!


    No, I simply have a pet-peeve for people who spread misinformation. No matter what it is. 

    It's a trait, I would love to get rid of.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    Master_Bass 2 hours ago#55
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    In a legal MLM business, you sell legitimate products that people genuinely want for a fair price.

    Lmao, no one wants the vast majority of MLM products.
    Many Bothans died to bring you this post.
    BLAKUboy 2 hours ago#56
    The entire MLM system is built not on selling the "product", but instead recruiting other people who then buy the "product" from you to sell to people they recruit or else just throw their money away filling their garage with worthless garbage. It is a scam.
    Aeris dies if she takes more damage than her current HP - Panthera
    https://signavatar.com/26999_s.png
    ocelot51 2 hours ago#57
    Nitpicking the semantics of what constitutes a scam undermines the point everyone is trying to make. MLMs are nearly all predatory. Vector definitely so.
    DarkRoast 2 hours ago#58
    Master_Bass posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    In a legal MLM business, you sell legitimate products that people genuinely want for a fair price.

    Lmao, no one wants the vast majority of MLM products.


    The product is really just a formality, the actual money comes from having recruits.

    Multi-level marketing is a legal scam. If there were any other industry with 99% of its employees making $0 or less, that industry would be regulated faster than anything.

    and the worst part is, the people who defend it the strongest are the ones who get screwed over the hardest. MLM companies deliberately have a cult-like design, filled with motivational seminars and slogans.
    Well allons-y, Alonso!
    (edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
    MC_BatCommander 2 hours ago#59
    ocelot51 posted...
    Nitpicking the semantics of what constitutes a scam undermines the point everyone is trying to make. MLMs are nearly all predatory. Vector definitely so.


    Yeah this, predatory and misleading recruitment.
    The Legend is True!
    Master_Bass posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    In a legal MLM business, you sell legitimate products that people genuinely want for a fair price.

    Lmao, no one wants the vast majority of MLM products.


    This isnt true at all. Even if it was, legitimacy has nothing to do with desire.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    (edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
    Tyranthraxus 2 hours ago#61
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Tyranthraxus posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
     show hidden quote(s)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme


    None of that proved it was a scam. 

    Nice attempt. Maybe try harder than a copy/paste next time.


    I mean I don't really think you fully understand the meaning of the word scam or what vector marketing does.

    You don't sell knives for vector marketing. You buy knives from them and then sell them on your own and keep the profit. They don't care whether or not you actually do any work because they've already made their money from you. The promises of riches come from your ability to buy into the scam, and then later recruit people to also buy into the scam. The more people you recruit into the scam, the more money you make. While they tell you everyone can do this, the fact is, most people cannot. As in they have no ability to do such a thing because they lack proper business contacts. They deliberately target people of early college ages because of their poor judgement and high level of confidence. They target people that they know will fail because they don't care they already got your money.

    Thus, at the end of your vector marketing career, you're left with nothing but debt and a bunch of knives that you couldn't sell and you never get any of the s*** they promised you. And you probably pissed off some of your family and friends trying to sell knives to them in the process.

    This is a scam. The only way you can make money off it is if you scam other people. You cannot make money just by selling knives, and in fact, have to pay to do it.

    My brother got suckered into it for around 2 years.
    It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
    https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
    (To karl) You say that but I've interviewed and worked with (not for) MLM companies that recruit idiot students who aren't aware of how actual more legitimate companies are run. They're put in door-to-door sales without calling it door-to-door on a technical level, no leads, no pay or bonus unless they're able to aggressively put people in plans that are hard to get out. You can see in a lot of testimonials that these kinds of companies like doing s*** like not cancelling plans to deceased individuals even after reports of the person's passing to the company or taking advantage of the elderly and convincing them the service is right for them until their family intervenes. 

    These "legitimate" products are also legitimate in a technical sense. They're usually extravagant and overpriced that 99% of the world won't need, but salesmen are basically tasked to convince otherwise

    They're always just skirting the edges of legality and hiding in plain sight arguing with sophistry and semantics to justify what is basically morally wrong in just about everybody else's eyes.

    But what does it matter to people like them or you? As long as you think of yourself as right, it's fine regardless of who's affected right?
    "Iwata was awesome" - Mr. Nintendo
    https://i.imgtc.com/7dRrfE1.jpg
    (edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
    Bishop9800 2 hours ago#63
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Bishop9800 posted...
    radical rhino posted...
     show hidden quote(s)


    No, I simply have a pet-peeve for people who spread misinformation. No matter what it is. 


    So you must really hate yourself....
    DarkRoast 2 hours ago#64
    MLM products are often deliberately grotesquely overpriced. A common theory is that the products are made so expensive, that sales people can't actually sell the product and fold quickly. Most of the MLM money comes from the paid seminars and sales starting kits.
    Well allons-y, Alonso!
    DarkRoast 2 hours ago#65
    Tyranthraxus posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Tyranthraxus posted...
     show hidden quote(s)


    None of that proved it was a scam. 

    Nice attempt. Maybe try harder than a copy/paste next time.


    I mean I don't really think you fully understand the meaning of the word scam or what vector marketing does.

    You don't sell knives for vector marketing. You buy knives from them and then sell them on your own and keep the profit. They don't care whether or not you actually do any work because they've already made their money from you. The promises of riches come from your ability to buy into the scam, and then later recruit people to also buy into the scam. The more people you recruit into the scam, the more money you make. While they tell you everyone can do this, the fact is, most people cannot. As in they have no ability to do such a thing because they lack proper business contacts. They deliberately target people of early college ages because of their poor judgement and high level of confidence. They target people that they know will fail because they don't care they already got your money.

    Thus, at the end of your vector marketing career, you're left with nothing but debt and a bunch of knives that you couldn't sell and you never get any of the s*** they promised you. And you probably pissed off some of your family and friends trying to sell knives to them in the process.

    This is a scam. The only way you can make money off it is if you scam other people. You cannot make money just by selling knives, and in fact, have to pay to do it.

    My brother got suckered into it for around 2 years.


    Not to mention, they fail to address the simple fact that we no longer live in a world that has any interest in peer-to-peer marketing. Nobody wants to buy some overpriced knives from a friend, they'll go to Amazon. Multi-level marketing products aren't designed to be sold. In fact, they're designed and priced to be not sold.

    All the money comes from recruitment videos, seminars, etc.
    Well allons-y, Alonso!
    (edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
    Tyranthraxus posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Tyranthraxus posted...
     show hidden quote(s)


    None of that proved it was a scam. 

    Nice attempt. Maybe try harder than a copy/paste next time.


    I mean I don't really think you fully understand the meaning of the word scam or what vector marketing does.

    You don't sell knives for vector marketing. You buy knives from them and then sell them on your own and keep the profit. They don't care whether or not you actually do any work because they've already made their money from you. The promises of riches come from your ability to buy into the scam, and then later recruit people to also buy into the scam. The more people you recruit into the scam, the more money you make. While they tell you everyone can do this, the fact is, most people cannot. As in they have no ability to do such a thing because they lack proper business contacts. They deliberately target people of early college ages because of their poor judgement and high level of confidence. They target people that they know will fail because they don't care they already got your money.

    Thus, at the end of your vector marketing career, you're left with nothing but debt and a bunch of knives that you couldn't sell and you never get any of the s*** they promised you. And you probably pissed off some of your family and friends trying to sell knives to them in the process.

    This is a scam. The only way you can make money off it is if you scam other people. You cannot make money just by selling knives, and in fact, have to pay to do it.

    My brother got suckered into it for around 2 years.


    Nothing you outlined is a scam, even if you managed to incorrectly insert it multiple times into your post. If you can't sell their products, then of course you wont make money. How the f*** does your inability to sell make it a scam? Please explain that simple point.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    UnholyMudcrab 2 hours ago#67
    Why the f*** have y'all spent this many posts feeding that guy?

    How ironic that this happens in a topic about people not realizing they're being fooled.
    DarkRoast posted...
    Master_Bass posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
     show hidden quote(s)

    Lmao, no one wants the vast majority of MLM products.


    The product is really just a formality, the actual money comes from having recruits.

    Multi-level marketing is a legal scam. If there were any other industry with 99% of its employees making $0 or less, that industry would be regulated faster than anything.

    and the worst part is, the people who defend it the strongest are the ones who get screwed over the hardest. MLM companies deliberately have a cult-like design, filled with motivational seminars and slogans.


    You ever hear the FTC or whoever's investigation of MLMs? They basically described it as a pyramid scheme, even used the term pyramidal structure, but refused to call it such.

    "All I have is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for anyone!"-Tony Montana
    legendarylemur posted...
    (To karl) You say that but I've interviewed and worked with (not for) MLM companies that recruit idiot students who aren't aware of how actual more legitimate companies are run. They're put in door-to-door sales without calling it door-to-door on a technical level, no leads, no pay or bonus unless they're able to aggressively put people in plans that are hard to get out. You can see in a lot of testimonials that these kinds of companies like doing s*** like not cancelling plans to deceased individuals even after reports of the person's passing to the company or taking advantage of the elderly and convincing them the service is right for them until their family intervenes. 

    These "legitimate" products are also legitimate in a technical sense. They're usually extravagant and overpriced that 99% of the world won't need, but salesmen are basically tasked to convince otherwise

    They're always just skirting the edges of legality and hiding in plain sight arguing with sophistry and semantics to justify what is basically morally wrong in just about everybody else's eyes.

    But what does it matter to people like them or you? As long as you think of yourself as right, it's fine regardless of who's affected right?


    Being "overpriced" can apply to most things. Most jewelry (diamonds) are completely overpriced. Designer clothes? Overpriced. It costs 2 dollars to make jeans ,and they sell "designer" jeans for $300 at the mall. 

    Again, that doesn't make something a "scam". Are some companies more manipulative than others? Sure, but that doesnt make the entire industry a scam.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    (edited 2 hours ago)reportquote
    Tyranthraxus 2 hours ago#70
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Nothing you outlined is a scam, even if you managed to incorrectly insert it multiple times into your post. If you can't sell their products, then of course you wont make money. How the f*** does your inability to sell make it a scam? Please explain that simple point.


    I literally just told you. The guy who recruited you is the one who makes the money at your expense.

    In a normal job if I'm hired for sales and can't sell s***, the company loses money and the time they wasted having me as a salesperson. In Vector, that's like the 2nd best case scenario.
    It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
    https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
    Umbreon 1 hour ago#71
    UnholyMudcrab posted...
    Why the f*** have y'all spent this many posts feeding that guy?

    How ironic that this happens in a topic about people not realizing they're being fooled.


    For real.

    People in this topic is why mlms are still a thing.
    This is a mobile account, forgive any errors. ~DYL~
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTEX3YdEi7s
    Tyranthraxus posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Nothing you outlined is a scam, even if you managed to incorrectly insert it multiple times into your post. If you can't sell their products, then of course you wont make money. How the f*** does your inability to sell make it a scam? Please explain that simple point.


    I literally just told you. The guy who recruited you is the one who makes the money at your expense.

    In a normal job if I'm hired for sales and can't sell s***, the company loses money and the time they wasted having me as a salesperson. In Vector, that's like the 2nd best case scenario.


    #1. If I'm recruited, and I sell, I get paid

    #2 At a commission sales job, if you don't make money, the company doesn't get paid either. Most MLM's simply requires you to pay their membership fee to join and they send you the product as part of it. This is all upfront before signing up. None of it is a scam.

    So, no you haven't "told" me anything.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    Balrog0 1 hour ago#73
    and you're still trying to convince people you're not proudclad
    But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
    Balrog0 posted...
    and you're still trying to convince people you're not proudclad


    There's a difference between "convincing" people, and simply stating that I'm not.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    Balrog0 1 hour ago#75
    Agreed, I didn't say you were successful at convincing
    But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
    davyheinz 1 hour ago#76
    Proudclad is definitely a MLM guy.
    Currently playing: Psychonauts, BioShock
    In limbo: Strider, Jet Force Gemini
    Behaviorism 1 hour ago#77
    I don't understand why you can be sued for calling MLM companies pyramids schemes when that's what they are. Herbalife? Kirby Vacuum cleaners? Get serious
    Sarah Logan got screwed at Wrestlemania 35. I'm rooting for her <3
    BLAKUboy 1 hour ago#78
    I wasn't aware Proudclad was an MLM shill, but I'm also not surprised in the least.
    Aeris dies if she takes more damage than her current HP - Panthera
    https://signavatar.com/26999_s.png
    Balrog0 1 hour ago#79
    BLAKUboy posted...
    I wasn't aware Proudclad was an MLM shill, but I'm also not surprised in the least.


    it's not about MLM, it's about his weird bootstrapping worldview that comes through in a very proudcladian way
    But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
    MC_BatCommander 1 hour ago#80
    I didn't know that was proudclad lmao
    The Legend is True!
    Tmaster148 1 hour ago#81
    Balrog0 posted...
    and you're still trying to convince people you're not proudclad


    So karl is proudclad. Guess that explains why he picks things that people largely agree are bad to defend.
    Balrog0 posted...
    BLAKUboy posted...
    I wasn't aware Proudclad was an MLM shill, but I'm also not surprised in the least.


    it's not about MLM, it's about his weird bootstrapping worldview that comes through in a very proudcladian way


    There's nothing weird about thinking people should work for their success, and not get handouts for doing nothing of real value. To think this type of view point is specific to one person is ridiculous.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    (edited 1 hour ago)reportquote
    BLAKUboy 1 hour ago#83
    MC_BatCommander posted...
    I didn't know that was proudclad lmao

    It is an incredibly recent revelation. Like literally just today.
    In fairness, the account is usually in Purg for transphobic stuff.
    Aeris dies if she takes more damage than her current HP - Panthera
    https://signavatar.com/26999_s.png
    Vertania 1 hour ago#84
    I was desperate for work and got suckered into driving an hour for a “job interview” that ended up being a group presentation for a life insurance sales pyramid scheme. I was one of like three people that hadn’t left by the end, so the guy tried to get $200 out of me to get me started.

    Within a couple weeks, I moved ~3,000 miles across the country to job hunt there instead.
    BLAKUboy posted...
    MC_BatCommander posted...
    I didn't know that was proudclad lmao

    It is an incredibly recent made up revelation.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    MC_BatCommander 1 hour ago#86
    BLAKUboy posted...
    MC_BatCommander posted...
    I didn't know that was proudclad lmao

    It is an incredibly recent revelation. Like literally just today.
    In fairness, the account is usually in Purg for transphobic stuff.


    I see 🤔
    The Legend is True!
    DarkRoast 1 hour ago#87
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Balrog0 posted...
    BLAKUboy posted...
     show hidden quote(s)


    it's not about MLM, it's about his weird bootstrapping worldview that comes through in a very proudcladian way


    There's nothing weird about thinking people should work for their success, and not get handouts for doing nothing of real value. To think this type of view point is specific to one person is ridiculous.


    On the contrary, I think people should be paid for their work.

    But as a doctor I just get handouts so
    Well allons-y, Alonso!
    Tmaster148 1 hour ago#88
    BLAKUboy posted...
    MC_BatCommander posted...
    I didn't know that was proudclad lmao

    It is an incredibly recent revelation. Like literally just today.
    In fairness, the account is usually in Purg for transphobic stuff.


    yeah, proudclad never strike me as transphobic, but his last account was too focus on calling everyone a communist that he never laid any opinions about that kind of stuff.
    DarkRoast posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Balrog0 posted...
     show hidden quote(s)


    There's nothing weird about thinking people should work for their success, and not get handouts for doing nothing of real value. To think this type of view point is specific to one person is ridiculous.


    On the contrary, I think people should be paid for their work.

    But as a doctor I just get handouts so


    What type of handouts?
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Tyranthraxus posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
     show hidden quote(s)


    I literally just told you. The guy who recruited you is the one who makes the money at your expense.

    In a normal job if I'm hired for sales and can't sell s***, the company loses money and the time they wasted having me as a salesperson. In Vector, that's like the 2nd best case scenario.


    #1. If I'm recruited, and I sell, I get paid

    #2 At a commission sales job, if you don't make money, the company doesn't get paid either. Most MLM's simply requires you to pay their membership fee to join and they send you the product as part of it. This is all upfront before signing up. None of it is a scam.

    So, no you haven't "told" me anything.


    #1 I just told you that no, you don't get paid. You have to buy their kits and seminars which puts you into the red, then sell it just to break even and maybe end up with a little extra pocket change. My brother worked all day and after his expenses he made an average of $2 an hour, except less than that really since he was never reimbursed for any of the gas he spent driving to customers locations. The only person who gets paid is the person you buy the kits / seminars from.

    #2 Vector Marketing is not a commission based job. You have to buy the material to sell, and then you have to sell it. You don't get a commission. You get exactly what you sell. They call it commission but the fact is you are just a reseller, and a terrible one. They are selling you products for retail prices that you have to turn around and sell at a markup.

    At the end of the day Vector Marketing promises that you can become rich but you can't actually get that way unless you scam other people into the s*** that you had to do starting out.
    It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
    https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
    Balrog0 1 hour ago#91
    Tmaster148 posted...
    BLAKUboy posted...
    MC_BatCommander posted...
     show hidden quote(s)

    It is an incredibly recent revelation. Like literally just today.
    In fairness, the account is usually in Purg for transphobic stuff.


    yeah, proudclad never strike me as transphobic, but his last account was too focus on calling everyone a communist that he never laid any opinions about that kind of stuff.


    before that it was being atheist and before that it was being super christian

    the fact that the emphasis keeps changing and isnt principled at all but the oddly intense love for anything that can be construed as hard work and dedication or w/e even if it's obviously bad has been consistent through all of these phases
    But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.
    Tyranthraxus posted...
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    Tyranthraxus posted...
     show hidden quote(s)


    #1. If I'm recruited, and I sell, I get paid

    #2 At a commission sales job, if you don't make money, the company doesn't get paid either. Most MLM's simply requires you to pay their membership fee to join and they send you the product as part of it. This is all upfront before signing up. None of it is a scam.

    So, no you haven't "told" me anything.


    #1 I just told you that no, you don't get paid. You have to buy their kits and seminars which puts you into the red, then sell it just to break even and maybe end up with a little extra pocket change. My brother worked all day and after his expenses he made an average of $2 an hour, except less than that really since he was never reimbursed for any of the gas he spent driving to customers locations. The only person who gets paid is the person you buy the kits / seminars from.

    #2 Vector Marketing is not a commission based job. You have to buy the material to sell, and then you have to sell it. You don't get a commission. You get exactly what you sell. They call it commission but the fact is you are just a reseller, and a terrible one. They are selling you products for retail prices that you have to turn around and sell at a markup.

    At the end of the day Vector Marketing promises that you can become rich but you can't actually get that way unless you scam other people into the s*** that you had to do starting out.


    Again nothing you said makes it a scam, you just keep talking in circles. 

    "You have to buy a membership so you're in the red" 

    Do they still pay you when you sell their products? 

    "Yes"

    Oh...so it's not a scam

    And the majority of MLM companies give you a special link to send your customers when they buy online. You don't need to buy the product to sell it. That's blatantly false as a MLM standard.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    spudger 1 hour ago#93
    radical rhino posted...
    Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!

    its just his gimmick

    basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite.

    hes a contrarian troll; its weird.
    -Only dead fish swim with the current
    http://error1355.com/ce/spudger.html
    AlabamaLove 1 hour ago#94
    spudger posted...
    radical rhino posted...
    Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!

    its just his gimmick

    basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite.

    hes a contrarian troll; its weird.

    Also apparently sells knives
    DarkRoast 1 hour ago#95
    spudger posted...
    radical rhino posted...
    Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!

    its just his gimmick

    basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite.

    hes a contrarian troll; its weird.


    He's pretty dedicated. Even I have my limits.
    Well allons-y, Alonso!
    Bishop9800 1 hour ago#96
    So Karl is Proudcast? 
    Now the bulls*** makes sense
    DarkRoast 1 hour ago#97
    Bishop9800 posted...
    So Karl is Proudcast? 
    Now the bulls*** makes sense


    Find religion, conservatism and your next set of deluxe knives all in one convenient package.
    Well allons-y, Alonso!
    Bishop9800 posted...
    So Karl is Proudcast? 
    Now the bulls*** makes sense


    No, I'm not. Feel free to believe random people who certainly don't know, though.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    spudger posted...
    radical rhino posted...
    Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!

    its just his gimmick

    basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite.

    hes a contrarian troll; its weird.


    I only enter discussions on things that I know to be right (or strongly believe to be). Being contrarian for contrarians sake is not what I do.
    Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
    Tmaster148 1 hour ago#100
    karlpilkington4 posted...
    I only enter discussions on things that I know to be right (or strongly believe to be)


    I have never seen you be right about anything, but at least you cover your tracks there.
    1. Boards
    2. Current Events
    3. One of my wife's family members fell for the Vector Marketing scam
      1. Boards
      2. Current Events
      3. One of my wife's family members fell for the Vector Marketing scam
      Mister_Spyker posted...
      It's one of those things that is amazing for a very particular sort of person


      Pretty much this. I know a kid who grew up with my on my street who was really shy, but really humble. Turns out he can sell and influence like a mad man, and now he's making bank with amway, or whatever they call themselves these days.

      He got me to try it for a few months, but I just didn't have the people skills (lets alone the network of friends/acquaintances) to get out and put in the necessary hustle. When I first started, my boss at work was like "oh s***, I love the soda they sell... I'll take two boxes!" and I was like "oh damn I'm off to a great start!" but then he was set with those two boxes for a while and I ended up changing jobs.

      I tried talking to a few people but just had this feeling of guilt the whole time... that, or they were already trying to sell products of their own! haha. When I asked the guy, the kid I mentioned earlier, how he was so successful... he was simply like "man I just see this business as getting to hang out with friends all day... I get to go out and talk to friends and make new ones" and I was sitting there the whole time thinking "I dont want friends I want money" which showed me that I just didn't have the mindset for it and I left short thereafter. 

      If you're a people person you really can make bank with this stuff.
      "With cheese in either hand, anything is possible"
      DarkRoast 1 hour ago#102
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      spudger posted...
      radical rhino posted...
       show hidden quote(s)

      its just his gimmick

      basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite.

      hes a contrarian troll; its weird.


      I only enter discussions on things that I know to be right (or strongly believe to be). Being contrarian for contrarians sake is not what I do.


      Only fools are certain.
      Well allons-y, Alonso!
      Conflict 1 hour ago#103
      My friend was

      He broke out of that s*** eventually though.
      You can't trust anybody
      if you can't trust number one
      spudger 1 hour ago#104
      DarkRoast posted...
      spudger posted...
      radical rhino posted...
       show hidden quote(s)

      its just his gimmick

      basically any topic where the prevailing opinion is siding in one direction, he advocates the opposite.

      hes a contrarian troll; its weird.


      He's pretty dedicated. Even I have my limits.

      super dedicated. if it wasn't so annoying i'd be impressed.
      -Only dead fish swim with the current
      http://error1355.com/ce/spudger.html
      DarkRoast posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      spudger posted...
       show hidden quote(s)


      I only enter discussions on things that I know to be right (or strongly believe to be). Being contrarian for contrarians sake is not what I do.


      Only fools are certain.


      I'm pretty certain the sky is blue, that the earth is round, flossing is healthy, etc. Give me evidence that convinces me otherwise, and I will change my mind, but until then, I'm going to be pretty f***ing certain of certain things.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      "You have to buy a membership so you're in the red" 

      Do they still pay you when you sell their products? 

      "Yes"


      No. They literally don't. 

      karlpilkington4 posted...
      And the majority of MLM companies give you a special link to send your customers when they buy online. You don't need to buy the product to sell it. That's blatantly false as a MLM standard.


      Okay but that's not what vector marketing does. They make you buy both the product and these imaginary pep talks.
      It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
      https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
      treewojima 1 hour ago#107
      Holy s***, karlpilkington4 definitely works for a MLM company
      Bishop9800 1 hour ago#108
      spudger posted...
      DarkRoast posted...
      spudger posted...
       show hidden quote(s)


      He's pretty dedicated. Even I have my limits.

      super dedicated. if it wasn't so pathetic i'd be impressed.


      FTFY
      treewojima posted...
      Holy s***, karlpilkington4 definitely works for a MLM company


      I don't. I run a marketing company. MLM is a dumb business model. It's just not a scam.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      Tyranthraxus posted...


      Okay but that's not what vector marketing does. They make you buy both the product and these imaginary pep talks.


      Fair enough, either way its not a scam if they tell you that upfront.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      Conflict 1 hour ago#111
      I don't think Karl is proudclad either btw

      Clad seems to have just given up and fallen off the radar because he lost both his mains and can't last 5 minutes on the random old accounts he borrows from other people without getting banned

      Karl is mega lol in this topic though. Probably buyers remorse for those $1000 knives
      You can't trust anybody
      if you can't trust number one
      Conflict posted...
      I don't think Karl is proudclad either btw

      I agree.

      I don't know what happened to him but he's not karl
      It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
      https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
      Bishop9800 1 hour ago#113
      Conflict posted...

      Karl is mega lol in this topic though. Probably buyers remorse for those $1000 knives


      I think we can all agree on this......
      Conflict posted...


      Karl is mega lol in this topic though. Probably buyers remorse for those $1000 knives


      Nah, never got into cutco. I did SEO for a guy who did MLM stuff, which is why I know about it all.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      Tyranthraxus posted...


      Okay but that's not what vector marketing does. They make you buy both the product and these imaginary pep talks.


      Fair enough, either way its not a scam if they tell you that upfront.


      I mean they don't.

      They tell you where you start and they tell you what the top of the pyramid looks like. They tell you all the gilded parts and none of the s*** that you have to scrub to get there.

      It's like "Hey, you want a job helping out with preschool kids? Pays 200k a year!" "ok seems sweet money" first day on the job the kids are surrounded by tigers and you find out later that this is a daily thing.
      It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
      https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
      lydiaquayle 58 minutes ago#116
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      It's a commission based job.

      If it's a commission-based job, then the salesman would never have to put up his own money to get the product, dude.
      [Feminist][CisGender][Straight Supporter][Non-Binary]
      I'm not Ashamed to Dress 'like a Woman' because I don't think it's Shameful to be a Woman. ~Iggy Pop~
      (edited 57 minutes ago)reportquote
      karlpilkington4 54 minutes ago#117
      Tyranthraxus posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      Tyranthraxus posted...
       show hidden quote(s)


      Fair enough, either way its not a scam if they tell you that upfront.


      I mean they don't.

      They tell you where you start and they tell you what the top of the pyramid looks like. They tell you all the gilded parts and none of the s*** that you have to scrub to get there.

      It's like "Hey, you want a job helping out with preschool kids? Pays 200k a year!" "ok seems sweet money" first day on the job the kids are surrounded by tigers and you find out later that this is a daily thing.


      I just looked up Vector Marketing, and they arent even an MLM company. They are a direct sales company.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      DarkRoast 53 minutes ago#118
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      Tyranthraxus posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
       show hidden quote(s)


      I mean they don't.

      They tell you where you start and they tell you what the top of the pyramid looks like. They tell you all the gilded parts and none of the s*** that you have to scrub to get there.

      It's like "Hey, you want a job helping out with preschool kids? Pays 200k a year!" "ok seems sweet money" first day on the job the kids are surrounded by tigers and you find out later that this is a daily thing.


      I just looked up Vector Marketing, and they arent even an MLM company. They are a direct sales company.


      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_Marketing

      Vector Marketing is a multi-level marketing subsidiary company and the domestic sales arm of Cutco Corporation, an Olean, New York-based cutlery manufacturer.[1][2]
      Well allons-y, Alonso!
      YookaLaylee 53 minutes ago#119
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.

      Sounds like Stockholm syndrome
      karlpilkington4 52 minutes ago#120
      lydiaquayle posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      It's a commission based job.

      If it's a commission-based job, then the salesman would never have to put up his own money to get the product, dude.


      Says who? The world police of commission jobs?
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      karlpilkington4 49 minutes ago#121
      DarkRoast posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      Tyranthraxus posted...
       show hidden quote(s)


      I just looked up Vector Marketing, and they arent even an MLM company. They are a direct sales company.


      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_Marketing

      Vector Marketing is a multi-level marketing subsidiary company and the domestic sales arm of Cutco Corporation, an Olean, New York-based cutlery manufacturer.[1][2]


      Vector Marketing is a little different in that they claim not to be an MLM at all. According to them, their reps can earn incentives and prized for recruiting new sales reps, but they don’t get paid on a multi-level downline.

      https://mlmcompanies.org/vector-marketing/

      Maybe know what you're talking about before linking to wikipedia.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      BLAKUboy 48 minutes ago#122
      YookaLaylee posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.

      Sounds like Stockholm syndrome

      Sunk cost fallacy is probably more apt.
      Aeris dies if she takes more damage than her current HP - Panthera
      https://signavatar.com/26999_s.png
      karlpilkington4 47 minutes ago#123
      BLAKUboy posted...
      YookaLaylee posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
       show hidden quote(s)

      Sounds like Stockholm syndrome

      Sunk cost fallacy is probably more apt.


      Sunk cost of what? What did I buy? I'm curious.

      NB4 some lame joke or backpeddle.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      Hexenherz 46 minutes ago#124
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      lydiaquayle posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
       show hidden quote(s)

      If it's a commission-based job, then the salesman would never have to put up his own money to get the product, dude.


      Says who? The world police of commission jobs?

      I mean, that's literally how a commission-based salary works. You work directly for a company, you sell a product or service that the company has already fronted. Depending on your state, you will still be entitled to some wage regardless if you sell or not, though obviously if you're not doing a good job the company has the right to let you go. And you're not required to pay the company money first to get the job.
      FFXIV: Herzog Erislieb (Cactaur) | RS3: UltimaSuende . 99 WC/Fish/Cook/Fletch/Div
      DarkRoast 45 minutes ago#125
      If MLM products were worth buying, they wouldn't need 900,000 salespeople
      Well allons-y, Alonso!
      Captain_Qwark 44 minutes ago#126
      MLMs are literally pyramid schemes
      UnholyMudcrab 44 minutes ago#127
      Hexenherz 43 minutes ago#128
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      DarkRoast posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
       show hidden quote(s)


      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_Marketing

      Vector Marketing is a multi-level marketing subsidiary company and the domestic sales arm of Cutco Corporation, an Olean, New York-based cutlery manufacturer.[1][2]


      Vector Marketing is a little different in that they claim not to be an MLM at all. According to them, their reps can earn incentives and prized for recruiting new sales reps, but they don’t get paid on a multi-level downline.

      https://mlmcompanies.org/vector-marketing/

      Maybe know what you're talking about before linking to wikipedia.


      Call it what you want, but the concept remains. Sell as many products as you can to your warm market (friends, family, coworkers). But after those run out, then what?

      Literally the next line; the author calls it an MLM consistently throughout that page and literally writes "Call it what you want" right after the excerpt you posted.
      FFXIV: Herzog Erislieb (Cactaur) | RS3: UltimaSuende . 99 WC/Fish/Cook/Fletch/Div
      Tyranthraxus 41 minutes ago#129
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      NB4 some lame joke or backpeddle.

      Shortly after this statement you went from "MLM isn't a scam" to "vector marketing isn't MLM"
      It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
      https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
      karlpilkington4 40 minutes ago#130
      Hexenherz posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      DarkRoast posted...
       show hidden quote(s)


      Vector Marketing is a little different in that they claim not to be an MLM at all. According to them, their reps can earn incentives and prized for recruiting new sales reps, but they don’t get paid on a multi-level downline.

      https://mlmcompanies.org/vector-marketing/

      Maybe know what you're talking about before linking to wikipedia.


      Call it what you want, but the concept remains. Sell as many products as you can to your warm market (friends, family, coworkers). But after those run out, then what?

      Literally the next line; the author calls it an MLM consistently throughout that page and literally writes "Call it what you want" right after the excerpt you posted.


      So, it's not a MLM because there's not a downline aka no multilevel, but its still a MLM because some dude says so? 

      Nice logic there bud. I linked to a random article because I didnt feel like finding the actual website link again

      MYTH: Vector Marketing is a scam because it's a multi-level marketing company.

      The TRUTH: Vector Marketing is not a multi-level marketing company. Vector Marketing is a single-level, direct-to-consumer marketing company and is recognized as an official member of the Direct Selling Association. In a multi-level marketing company, sales representatives make their money by recruiting additional sales representatives. This is not the case for Vector Marketing, as our sales representatives earn their money by selling Cutco's World's Finest Cutlery directly to consumers.


      https://www.vectormarketing.com/app/vector-truth
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      (edited 38 minutes ago)reportquote
      karlpilkington4 39 minutes ago#131
      Tyranthraxus posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      NB4 some lame joke or backpeddle.

      Shortly after this statement you went from "MLM isn't a scam" to "vector marketing isn't MLM"


      Both are true. So...
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      karlpilkington4 37 minutes ago#132
      Also 

      MYTH: Vector Marketing is a scam because you have to pay for your own starter demonstration kit.

      The TRUTH: One common misunderstanding is that you have to buy your own starter kit to hold demonstrations for your clients. This is not true, as you are NOT required to purchase the starter kit. In fact, each Vector sales rep will be loaned a CUTCO demonstration set to show customers the quality of CUTCO products.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      (edited 36 minutes ago)reportquote
      DarkRoast 34 minutes ago#133
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      Also 

      MYTH: Vector Marketing is a scam because you have to pay for your own starter demonstration kit.

      The TRUTH: One common misunderstanding is that you have to buy your own starter kit to hold demonstrations for your clients. This is not true, as you are NOT required to purchase the starter kit. In fact, each Vector sales rep will be loaned a CUTCO demonstration set to show customers the quality of CUTCO products.


      Source: A MLM company that doesn't want the negative press.

      They only started doing that after a lawsuit.
      Well allons-y, Alonso!
      (edited 34 minutes ago)reportquote
      BLAKUboy 34 minutes ago#134
      At some point you just need to put Proudclad on ignore.
      Aeris dies if she takes more damage than her current HP - Panthera
      https://signavatar.com/26999_s.png
      Tyranthraxus 32 minutes ago#135
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      The TRUTH: One common misunderstanding is that you have to buy your own starter kit to hold demonstrations for your clients. This is not true, as you are NOT required to purchase the starter kit. In fact, each Vector sales rep will be loaned a CUTCO demonstration set to show customers the quality of CUTCO products.

      You do not buy demonstration kit. You buy all the merchandise. I literally saw the invoice with my own eyes.
      It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
      https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
      lydiaquayle 32 minutes ago#136
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      Says who? The world police of commission jobs?

      That's how a f***ing commission-based job works.
      [Feminist][CisGender][Straight Supporter][Non-Binary]
      I'm not Ashamed to Dress 'like a Woman' because I don't think it's Shameful to be a Woman. ~Iggy Pop~
      chrono625 32 minutes ago#137
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      You can make money in MLM. It's not a scam.


      With an insane amount of luck and time invested.

      And to crack the barrier as a top level earner you need to be an early adopter.

      I see people saying they make 800 a month and that its great money.

      Sure, it's nice pocket change if you use it as a secondary income and post a few things every day on social media.

      But making it a full time job? You better be lucky and know a lot of idiots.

      Edit: cutco knives are the BEST knives you can get. Absolutely professional grade, sharp as absolute balls and FREE lifetime warranty with no gimmicks.

      I highly recommend if you cook daily and enjoy it. Even with the high price tag.
      https://imgur.com/Rqk1DYV - Super Bowl XXI/XXV/XLII/XLVI Champions - NY Giants
      Eli Manning SB tracker: 2/2 Superbowls 2/2 SBMVP's
      (edited 29 minutes ago)reportquote
      21WIVES_CHILL 31 minutes ago#138
      I remember i was looking for a job back in my college days about a decade ago. My friend had a "health job interview" for me and i went. I didnt know what was MLM at the time but the beginning part of the meeting had them showing nice cars and big mansions and that we can achieve these goals if we worked hard for it. Then came the time to sign up ajd buy their Usana startup kits. I felt loke i was bring forced to buy it but luckily i didnt have a bank account at the time. I wonder how they're doing now.
      karlpilkington4 29 minutes ago#139
      lydiaquayle posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      Says who? The world police of commission jobs?

      That's how a f***ing commission-based job works.


      Except in some MLM companies. Idk why this is so hard for you to understand
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      karlpilkington4 26 minutes ago#140
      Tyranthraxus posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      The TRUTH: One common misunderstanding is that you have to buy your own starter kit to hold demonstrations for your clients. This is not true, as you are NOT required to purchase the starter kit. In fact, each Vector sales rep will be loaned a CUTCO demonstration set to show customers the quality of CUTCO products.

      You do not buy demonstration kit. You buy all the merchandise. I literally saw the invoice with my own eyes.


      This isnt said anywhere, so feel free to post evidence. It doesnt even make sense

      Vector- "Here's the demo kit. Go sell some knives"

      *Goes to sell it to a homeowner*

      Homeowner- "I'll buy it"

      Me- "Hold on, first I have to order it myself with my own money, then I'll get it and sell it to you, and you give me money"
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      thronedfire2 25 minutes ago#141
      radical rhino posted...
      Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!


      Nah he just goes into topics and finds some BS to shill for and trolls for 100 posts

      Inb4 he says ‘posting “facts” isn’t trolling’
      I could see you, but I couldn't hear you You were holding your hat in the breeze Turning away from me In this moment you were stolen...
      (edited 25 minutes ago)reportquote
      karlpilkington4 24 minutes ago#142
      thronedfire2 posted...
      radical rhino posted...
      Holy s*** this karl guy is so obviously part of a MLM company and desperately doesn’t want to admit that he was scammed. Lol!


      Nah he just goes into topics and finds some BS to shill for and trolls for 100 posts

      Inb4 he says ‘posting “facts” isn’t trolling’


      You're right, posting facts isnt trolling.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      Tyranthraxus 15 minutes ago#143
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      This isnt said anywhere, so feel free to post evidence. It doesnt even make sense

      Vector- "Here's the demo kit. Go sell some knives"

      *Goes to sell it to a homeowner*

      Homeowner- "I'll buy it"

      Me- "Hold on, first I have to order it myself with my own money, then I'll get it and sell it to you, and you give me money"

      It's not said anywhere because that's part of the scam. You buy the product in advance, then sell through your inventory. My brother literally bought $1000 worth of cutco knives.
      It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
      https://imgur.com/dQgC4kv
      karlpilkington4 9 minutes ago#144
      Tyranthraxus posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      This isnt said anywhere, so feel free to post evidence. It doesnt even make sense

      Vector- "Here's the demo kit. Go sell some knives"

      *Goes to sell it to a homeowner*

      Homeowner- "I'll buy it"

      Me- "Hold on, first I have to order it myself with my own money, then I'll get it and sell it to you, and you give me money"

      It's not said anywhere because that's part of the scam. You buy the product in advance, then sell through your inventory. My brother literally bought $1000 worth of cutco knives.


      Then surely someone on the internet would have the same experience. There are tons of websites incorrectly saying its a "scam", yet none of them say you have to buy knives. Atleast I can't find any. Pretty hard to believe you, since the scenario doesnt make sense to begin with. They give you a free training kit, yet you have to buy the knives? Literally makes zero sense.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      (edited 7 minutes ago)reportquote
      Hexenherz 8 minutes ago#145
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      So, it's not a MLM because there's not a downline aka no multilevel, but its still a MLM because some dude says so? 

      Nice logic there bud. I linked to a random article because I didnt feel like finding the actual website link again

      MYTH: Vector Marketing is a scam because it's a multi-level marketing company.

      The TRUTH: Vector Marketing is not a multi-level marketing company. Vector Marketing is a single-level, direct-to-consumer marketing company and is recognized as an official member of the Direct Selling Association. In a multi-level marketing company, sales representatives make their money by recruiting additional sales representatives. This is not the case for Vector Marketing, as our sales representatives earn their money by selling Cutco's World's Finest Cutlery directly to consumers.


      https://www.vectormarketing.com/app/vector-truth


      1 - You posted a source saying "they don't call themselves an MLM", yet that article itself calls it an MLM constantly. Why would you post an article that you didn't even read yourself? Jfc

      2 - Of course they're not going to say "We're an MLM" on their website when you've clearly seen how negatively that term is interpreted.

      I am trying really hard to keep my ignore list at 0 but this is pushing the limits...
      FFXIV: Herzog Erislieb (Cactaur) | RS3: UltimaSuende . 99 WC/Fish/Cook/Fletch/Div
      karlpilkington4 7 minutes ago#146
      Hexenherz posted...
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      So, it's not a MLM because there's not a downline aka no multilevel, but its still a MLM because some dude says so? 

      Nice logic there bud. I linked to a random article because I didnt feel like finding the actual website link again

      MYTH: Vector Marketing is a scam because it's a multi-level marketing company.

      The TRUTH: Vector Marketing is not a multi-level marketing company. Vector Marketing is a single-level, direct-to-consumer marketing company and is recognized as an official member of the Direct Selling Association. In a multi-level marketing company, sales representatives make their money by recruiting additional sales representatives. This is not the case for Vector Marketing, as our sales representatives earn their money by selling Cutco's World's Finest Cutlery directly to consumers.


      https://www.vectormarketing.com/app/vector-truth


      I am trying really hard to keep my ignore list at 0 but this is pushing the limits...


      I really don't care what you do bud.
      Is This The Krusty Krab? "No This Is Patrick!"
      Hexenherz 5 minutes ago#147
      Apparently you are incapable of addressing the other two points that I made about why your argument is atrocious and hurts the brain.
      FFXIV: Herzog Erislieb (Cactaur) | RS3: UltimaSuende . 99 WC/Fish/Cook/Fletch/Div
      lydiaquayle 4 minutes ago#148
      karlpilkington4 posted...
      Except in some MLM companies.

      Which makes it a scam.
      If a company requires you to front money, then you're not supposed to be an employee. At best it's royalty-based.
      If they call it commission-based, then they're scamming you.
      [Feminist][CisGender][Straight Supporter][Non-Binary]
      I'm not Ashamed to Dress 'like a Woman' because I don't think it's Shameful to be a Woman. ~Iggy Pop~
      (edited 3 minutes ago)reportquote
      1. Boards
      2. Current Events 
      3. One of my wife's family members fell for the Vector Marketing scam